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HelicopterMain Discussion › Blade Weight
12-06-2004 12:37 PM  13 years agoPost 1
trvo

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Bognor Regis,UK, Aurorra Ltd

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Hi Guys,

I'm getting to the stage where I am starting to do fast climbouts etc... to gain some height before I start doing my loops and rolls etc... Whenever I do this the engine seriously boggs down, it is an OS 50 and my idle-up 2 pitch curve ranges from -7 0 +7. I have had to reduce the pitch from -9 0 +9 to stop the engine 'spluttering'. I have it running rich but not too rich. I was wondering if I had lighter blades whether this would reduce the bogging? I am currently running Ms Composite 570mm Glass blades which I know are very heavy. I was thinking about changing to SAB 570mm Carbons. The heli is a Morley F1 Carbon 46 with the headspeed running somewhere between 1600 and 1700rpm.

Cheers - Trev.

-----
Trex 600e
Trex 600n
Aurorra Ltd, Align UK, Align Factory, CSM, Quick UK, Heli-Lessons

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12-06-2004 12:40 PM  13 years agoPost 2
GM1

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Tallahassee, Florida US

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Hmmmmmm...........

You might try a higher headspeed to get the motor into an rpm range where it makes some power. No familiar with the Morley but 7 degrees with a 50 is pretty anemic.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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12-06-2004 12:44 PM  13 years agoPost 3
Saint728

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Honolulu, Hawaii

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Try running 600mm carbon blades, like V-Blades, TT blades, etc. If you don't want the helicopter to bog, use 30% nitro and lean it out a little more. You will be able to fly with a -10 +10 without bogging down the motor. Also, up your head speed to 1900.

Take Care,
Cheers, Patrick

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12-06-2004 12:56 PM  13 years agoPost 4
trvo

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Bognor Regis,UK, Aurorra Ltd

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Hi Guys,

I can't run a higher headspeed, strangely the heli wobbles when the Headspeed goes above 1750, but is rock solid when below that.
7 degrees with a 50 is pretty anemic.
Totally agree with you here, the heli really struggles on anything more than that though, it cut the other day whilst in the middle of a loop, my first inverted auto.

I cannot fit 600mm blades on it, 570mm are the max without getting to close to the tail rotor. Shall see about getting some 570mm SAB blades since most people use them in my local club.

Currently running 10% but will try some 30% in it.

Thanks for the advice.

Trev.

-----
Trex 600e
Trex 600n
Aurorra Ltd, Align UK, Align Factory, CSM, Quick UK, Heli-Lessons

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12-06-2004 01:24 PM  13 years agoPost 5
mcatech

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Mount Gambier SA Australia

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Hi Trvo
as gm1 said +7 on a 50 is very anemic
if the heli wobbles at high head speed try lubericating the rotor head dampers with silicon oil or replace the dampers
I have found this to be the cause of weird wobbles on my helis
otherwise you may have a fan or clutch or somrthing out of balance
even still you should be getting way more power
maybe your mixture is simply too rich?
are your throttle curves set right?
my heli as absolutely ballistic with the 50 even on the rich side
Cheers Michael

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12-06-2004 01:36 PM  13 years agoPost 6
trvo

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Bognor Regis,UK, Aurorra Ltd

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Ok, I shall oil the dampners up / get some new ones. The heli basically wobbles in a 6" circle at the bottom which is kinda hard to control. The wobble goes away in FFF though. I have had several people look at my engine but all say it is tuned fine although I have no idea as all I can do is stop the things working. My throttle curves are set according to a taco but they have been altered to remove the wobble. At full pitch there is 100% throttle. Would love to have a ballistic heli!!!!

Cheers - Trev.

-----
Trex 600e
Trex 600n
Aurorra Ltd, Align UK, Align Factory, CSM, Quick UK, Heli-Lessons

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12-06-2004 02:00 PM  13 years agoPost 7
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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..

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12-06-2004 02:53 PM  13 years agoPost 8
trvo

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Bognor Regis,UK, Aurorra Ltd

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Man I hardly can believe that any engine that dies can be said to be tuned properly.
--- By that statement I actually meant that the engine was tuned to its optimum.

Check first your throttle connection - should be able to fully open and fully close with no binding and should be all 90 degree angles at the 50% barrel open position.
--- I have checked this out as this was my first call, the throttle servo is correctly set up and all arms are at 90 degrees.

Now your radio. First pitch curves, I'd set at least +9 and -9 for that 50 size. Make it linear at least for now you can change it later. Also make sure that at the idle position that the throttle is not closing off. This is a possiblity for engine dying but not what I suspect.
--- I shall put the curves back to a linear line which I have set the heli up to be -9 0 +9 and 0% / 50% / 100% (My Idle up 2 used to be a straight line till I reduced the pitch.

Lube that spindle. Balance the blades.
--- Will do, I don't know how to balance the blades though, any info on this would be appreciated.

Hover and check blade tracking. I suspect this is out.
--- Blade tracking is spot on, I was suprised as this was correct from the start.

Here is the big step: Hover the model for a while and watch for smoke and vibrations. Should have some smoke and little or no vibes. Smoke should be a steady stream and not die off after a few, indicating lean/hot run. Land and stop the blades feel the engine backplate. Should be warm but not hot. I suspect yours will be either scorching hot or cold. I want to guess yours will be cold and you need to lean her out.
--- There is a steady steam at hover, however it disappears at higher throttle. Shall check the back-plate.

Hope this helps. DO NOT buy blades or upgrades to fix this. Something basic is wrong. Even with heavy woodies your 50 should spin them!
--- OK, anything to save the wallet

PS has this heli been crashed? If so check that shaft and spindle are straight. I roll them on a glass surface and if you see any wobble whatsoever they're bent.
--- Has just exploded before. Checked all the usual parts which are all true.

Thanks for the advice, will let you know what happens. Unfortunatly it is too dark when I finish work so will test fly at the weekend.

Cheers - Trev

-----
Trex 600e
Trex 600n
Aurorra Ltd, Align UK, Align Factory, CSM, Quick UK, Heli-Lessons

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12-06-2004 03:34 PM  13 years agoPost 9
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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12-06-2004 03:57 PM  13 years agoPost 10
gigi

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Port-au-Prince, Haiti

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A very wild guess...

A friend of mine recently assembled a new Raptor 50, and I could not believe how badly it was binding at full collective. It was a completely improper setup, beginning with an upside-down main shaft, and I don't know what else, but check to make sure that, with the engine off, and your collective at full positive pitch (throttle stick all the way up), that your cyclic moves as freely all the way around as it would at idle.

If you don't have that sort of problem, I agree with the carb tuning not anywhere it needs to be. The fact the smoke goes away at full throttle indicates it's too lean on the main needle, which is possibly compensated by being way too rich on the mixture. I would set the mixture to the default setting, and open the main needle to 2 turns, and start closing it 2-3 clicks at a time, doing climbs and normal flying, and checking the back-late temperature. It might take you a half-dozen or more landings to get there, but that's what I'd do.

Note that my friend flew the heli several times (slowly) before we even suspected there was a problem. It did not become apparent until he started using more than 3/4 pitch...

Gigi

My heli spending has gone way down since I got a Honda 919 :-)

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12-06-2004 05:22 PM  13 years agoPost 11
JKos

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Redondo Beach, CA

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Something I haven't seen mentioned yet is that even if your tracking looks OK, it isn't necessarily right. This has been noted several times here on RunRyder. If the MS blades you mention are "heavy" then that would make this even more possible.

You need to experiment with the tracking and find the point of least vibration at the headspeed you wish to run. I bet you can change your links a turn or two and it will still "look" good but you will notice changes in the vibration and maybe even blade sound.

The fact that it starts wobbling certainly indicates something is out of whack. As mentioned above, get those blades balanced, lube the dampeners, and then start working on the tracking.

And, to say it again, get that engine tuned properly.

- John

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12-06-2004 06:21 PM  13 years agoPost 12
trvo

rrVeteran

Bognor Regis,UK, Aurorra Ltd

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Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the great advice, here is my 'todo' list:

--Try 30% Nitro fuel
--Lubricate rotor head / spindle
--Set Pitch curve to -9 0 +9 (linear)
--Double check blade tracking (adjust turn at a time until no vibration)
--Adjust Needle's as per instructions from RR
--Balance blades as per instructions from RR

gigi - there is no binding / reduced movement on the swashplate at any throttle setting, good thinking though. I forgot to mention that it is a CCPM heli.

Thanks again, shall post an update after I have flown my heli at the weekend.

Cheers - Trev.

-----
Trex 600e
Trex 600n
Aurorra Ltd, Align UK, Align Factory, CSM, Quick UK, Heli-Lessons

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12-12-2004 05:07 PM  13 years agoPost 13
trvo

rrVeteran

Bognor Regis,UK, Aurorra Ltd

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Hi Guys,

Thanks for the help, the heli flies a lot better now...

--Tried 20% Four-Stroke fuel in the heli - seems to run it great
--Lubricated rotor head / spindle
--Set Pitch curve back to -9 0 +9 (linear)
--Blade tracking was set fine already
--Adjusted the leaned the low end by 1/4 turn and the main needle richened by 1/2 turn
--Checked the blade balance and everything was spot on

Head speed it now up to about 1750, still bogs a little but not as much as before. Might be due to the wide chord of them.

I also managed to get enough confidence in this particular model to loop and roll it for the first time, although I have looped and rolled other models.

Twas a sad day for the Cougar (Plank) today. Switched it into low rates for a bit of prop-hanging and forgot to put it back into 3D mode for some low inverted circuits, didn't put enough down in to keep it level in low rates -- got the sound of it hitting the dirt on video

Cheers for the help guys - Trev.

-----
Trex 600e
Trex 600n
Aurorra Ltd, Align UK, Align Factory, CSM, Quick UK, Heli-Lessons

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