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HelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Difference between CSM Rev-lock and TJ RevMax
12-11-2004 07:52 PM  13 years agoPost 261
Simon Brown

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Leicestershire

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Reesy

Just to reply to the comment you made on the gain pot.

You put that you are not interested in altering that as it makes it into a gv1- tjpro.

Nar not even slightly mate.
I turned mine down because I had a 8417 digital on the throttle to get the best from the tjpro I used to ise

I had a bit of a hunt so just turned it down to about 1/4
Superb. I think this pot is a sublte ajustment and not some big thing you might think.

Just turn it down and see.. You might find it will mask the engine setup issue while still giving the power you will need in punchy 3d.

If you are not into agressive 3d, then turn it down anyway as the subtle difference it will make, won;t be noticed..

Just a thought..

chow
si

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12-11-2004 09:43 PM  13 years agoPost 262
wisebob

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US

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I am running the RevLock on a OS 91 C Spec PS and did not have to fiddle with any needles to get it to run well. Have no problems with the RevLock and would take it over the GV-1 any day.

I, for one, am happy I bought it.

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12-11-2004 10:28 PM  13 years agoPost 263
Reesy

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In the doghouse ... Nottingham UK

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If they reduce the sensitivity it will drop back in performance to the tjpro
Then
You put that you are not interested in altering that as it makes it into a gv1- tjpro...not even slightly
Er?

A little note from a wee while back..
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...hlight=geometry

Hi Russ + Simon, thanks for the replies.. thing is it looks like I'm being negative all the time
not the case..
I'm actually quite interested in how all this pans out.
If it does double up as an engine setting up tool all the better.

I just like to try and report everything I see rather than trying to fit my thinking into whatevers currently flavour of the month..

Oh for a few hours of uninterrupted flying time....

Wisebob
Could you give me your setup details etc?
Many thanks

Paul

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12-11-2004 10:46 PM  13 years agoPost 264
TOSH

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UK.Peterborough

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Russ
Simon

So what would be the best servo (speedwise) for the revlock on my R50 OS 50.l understand that you blokes will have a few high end sevos laying about that you might as well use,but is it an improvement that l would notice or would my usual .15ish throttle servos be just as good?

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12-11-2004 11:34 PM  13 years agoPost 265
RussD

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UK

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Hi Tosh,

I am almost exclusively using JR 8201 servos on throttle, which are something like 0.19 and 4 kg. The exception is a Raptor 30 with a 591 on it.

Basically any digital servo seems to work well.

Your ribs healed yet mate

Russ.

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12-11-2004 11:39 PM  13 years agoPost 266
TOSH

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UK.Peterborough

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Thanks Russ.
Negative on the ribs.

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12-12-2004 11:37 AM  13 years agoPost 267
Knud Pedersen

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Denmark - Europe

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Engine Tail waggle/hunt

I need some help regarding to my new CSM Revlock.

I have never flow with a governor before. I’m the an expert in engine tuning.
My flying skills is rool / loop / flips / tic tac / backwards and invertedflying (Not a 3d super pilot )

The REVLOCK is installed in:
Fury Extreme
With a OS 91 SXH C-Spec PS / Muscle Pipe II (With return needle set), OS8 and WildCat 10%.
Gyro 601/S9251 (37% gain)

The Throttle servo Futaba S9252. Using ±100% ATV.
The Throttle linkage is: servohorn 90° to the servocase when engine in Idle, Servohorn rotate 90° to get to fuld throttle. (no offset used…..)
Servo- and carburettor horn length aproxx. 13,5 mm.

The Revlock Rpm is
Norm = engine (11k) 11750 = Rotor 1436 (8.18)
Idleup1 = engine (11k) 13250 = Rotor 1620 (8.18)
Norm = engine (11k) 14250 = Rotor 1742 (8.18)
Revlock responsibility = 50%

The problem is that in norm and idlup1 the TAIL and ENGINE is waggle significantly.
In Idleup2 the tail is almost steady……..
If I switch off the RevLock in flight, it seems like the engine runs smooth and the tail is steady.

I have then tried to tuning the engine (leaning it) by tuning the mainneedle and the return needle,,,,, and adjust the Revlock responsibility,,,,,,, I could only see slightly difference,,,,,,,,and if switching off the Revlock, the engine/tail runs smooth!!

On my last flight I broke the main gear due to the helicopter was tuning around when spooling op the rotor, and the tail hit he ground… L (%&//¤ I haven’t a spare gear ;-( and the weather is great today ¤%/()¤%# )
I think it the reason for that was the “over reacting” revlock/servo, and then the gyro could control the tail (and /or maybe a didn’t toggled the gyrogain switch, so that the tail blads was initialise….)


Question:
What next should I tried to get the engine running smooth (and no waggling tail)???

I also notice the the engine bog in climout - maybe because off to rich engine ??? ( but almost no bugging if the Revlock was switched off….)


Read the F&A:
Servo offset (less sensitive under full throttle)?????
Reduce the Revlock responsibility???????
Reducing the responsibility, isn´t that going to make the rpm hold bad /weak ? – or can a “to high tohrottle curve” and/or to much Cyclic-throttle mix cure that?)


ChopperKnud
Team Miniature Aircraft
ThePitchbrothers

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12-12-2004 06:32 PM  13 years agoPost 268
Sceadu Abuser

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England, Leicestershire

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Knud Pedersen
With a OS 91 SXH C-Spec PS / Muscle Pipe II (With return needle set), OS8 and WildCat 10%.
This does seem to be a bit low 10% nitro. Most I have seen are at least using 20 – 30% nitro. Wisebob comented earlier how he was having no problems with the same engine/pipe combination.

So far I have tried the Revlock on an OS50/Zimmerman, no problems at all at any headspeed. That machine later got a new West50, so while running in, a bit rich and hence a slow hunt. This week I have swapped it to another machine (West50 also). On this model no hunting at all with the engine running @17500. It does seem if running a tuned pipe the governor gets unhappy when outside of its ideal rev range. If I slow it down it does hunt and when I get more time I will see if I can solve this. Although @17500 it’s very consistent, lots of midrange punch, no hunting and extremely abusable!

P.S it’s good to see you back Alex
if I dare pull a rooster out of the hat.
I'll keep it under my hat about you pulling roosters!

SA

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12-12-2004 07:25 PM  13 years agoPost 269
wisebob

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US

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My setup is OS-91 C-Spec PS, Hatori 999 (similar to SB-16 muffler but about 1 inch shorter), Wildcat 30%.

I will eventually switch over to coolpower once I burn out my wildcat.

I definitely have noticed that engines run smoother on 30% nitro but I guess it can be cost prohibitive in europe.

I have a Freya with the RevLock and a Raptor 50/os 50 hyper/mp2/GV-1. I do really notice now that the GV-1 overspeeds quite often (haven't had overspeeding problem with RevLock).

I would love to put another RevLock in the Raptor 50 but then I would have two extra unused GV-1s...

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12-12-2004 07:54 PM  13 years agoPost 270
Reesy

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In the doghouse ... Nottingham UK

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Thanks Bob
I was thinking more in terms of needle settings, servo arm lenght, plug etc.
My setup is VERY similar to Knud's apart from I'm running 8.27 in my Rap90 with slightly different HS's and an 811 on throttle.
I went from 20% magnum to 12% as I had some to try but no obvious difference in the wagging, can't see the nitro content will make THAT much difference if the criteria is a well tuned engine,
Apart from lower nitro being more tricky to tune ..

Will try a shorter throttle servo arm initially and try to get some "tinkering" time in tomorrow.

Paul

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12-12-2004 09:52 PM  13 years agoPost 271
Simon Brown

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Leicestershire

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Hi all

A few points I pick up on that I would perhaps not do.. I have 4 revlocks now.. My lads raptor 50 has just copped for one.

not one of them is hunting when flying as normal.. Meaning if the head speed / engine rpm is at the correct range, then all is well ard.
One Millenium has a C spec standard spec in.
On this one alone, if I drop the head speed down to 1500rpm, which is a bit low to say the least, it will occasionally hunt when I drop out of big inverted loops.
I do have some adjustment on the gain pot, but choose not to bother as this rather low head speed is nice for a laugh but otherwise impractical.

I would agree with Sceadu abuser on his observations of 10% nitro.
I think that is rather low for these current engines. I used to run my YS and C specs on 30 cool power, but changed to 22.5%. (mixing 30 and 15%.).
I just felt that the engines would have a bit of a harsh tone. I know we richen it up which I did, But then it would have a 'burble' sort of run which my gyros were less happy with.
22% runs so much better. A nice compromise. gyros happy Revlocks happy.

I would suggest that the user of Magnum just try cool power 30. That is not some sort of go at Magnum fuels. But I have a few pilots I know that tried that fuel and did not get on with it, in their specific engine / machine and exhaust combos.
many do of coarse.
Wildcat is a good fuel, but again a few have found better results with the thinner cool power. Others are the other way round.

In the case of revlock hunting due to the engine clearly not running smoothly enough for the reaction speed of the unit, try cool power..
And chuck a couple of plug types at it. F7, Enya 3, OS 8 etc.

Failing that, I guess some will have to go back to the slower reacting units like the tj pro of gv- with bigger dead bands and less mid range torque.

and as sceadu abuser put,, "pulling your rooster" is not something to talk about in public, unless of course it means something different over there..
Si

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12-12-2004 10:33 PM  13 years agoPost 272
Sceadu Abuser

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England, Leicestershire

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I think we had better keep quiet about the rooster pulling seeing as it is a Sunday, and some people will be reciting the Lord’s Prayer. Leaving the rest of us to go play with our choppers!

To be fair on 3 different engines/pipe/muffler combinations I have had very few problems with hunting so far and the weather is cold and damp so the engines are running richer than normal. Oh the throttle servo is a top of the range 591 but might have to try a cheepo 8700G next week. But through the tach the head speed is very locked ¼ turns.

SA

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12-12-2004 10:37 PM  13 years agoPost 273
Simon Brown

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Leicestershire

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ah forgot to mention the servos..

I have a 8417 digital on the c spec milennium
a rather poorly rated 810 g on the YS 91 MIllenium.

A 591 on the Raptor 50 and a 811 basic digital in the ornith with webra 50.

All are really good.

Si

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12-13-2004 05:45 PM  13 years agoPost 274
Reesy

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In the doghouse ... Nottingham UK

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Well I mangaed a few flights today, first off I shortened my throttle arm to 10mm and offset it slightly as Russ suggested.This led to an immediate improvement but still not 100% smooth
Now have 3 settings
(1) Normal Revlock IN set @ approx 1650 HS
(2) Idle 1 Revlock OUT Throttle curve 66% - 60% -100% giving approx 1700HS
(3) Idle2 Revlock IN @ approx 1720 HS

In idle1 everything was smooth with slight bogging on full climbout suggesting slightly rich top end.
Hovering..
in Normal (Revlock in) there was a slight wag/beat to the engine.
In Idle2 (Revlock in) the "beat" speeded up sounding slightly like the note you get when the engine is too lean at idle, kinda "quacking" sound.

If this is brought about by a too rich mid in the PS I don't know of a cure, I tried leaning the bottom needle but it just made idle rough, almost to the point of stopping.
Just for a further check I hovered the last tank out, expecting the note to change as the header leaned but it just gradually speeded up sounding harsher before it finally cut.

At all times there was tons of smoke and engine temps peaked at 195f so I don't think the problem is a lean run.

My best guess is it's a PS problem that the Revlock is revealing, I've resisted lowering the sensitivity yet, trying to nail this first is the aim.

The problem of tail wag "seems" to be a rich midrange (allthough other PS users before revlock have found the opposite) but I wonder if we are misinterpreting what we see.

So only useful conclusion is to shorten the servo arm, hope someone can carry this forward and we can nail this sucker

Paul

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12-13-2004 06:21 PM  13 years agoPost 275
Knud Pedersen

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Denmark - Europe

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mmhh. OS91 PS...

I use the "OS Return Needle" on the standard ps cab.

The ones with Revlock/OS91PS problem use:
- Return Needle
- Cat eyes modification
- northing (Totally standard)
- or something else????


.

ChopperKnud
Team Miniature Aircraft
ThePitchbrothers

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12-13-2004 06:45 PM  13 years agoPost 276
Sceadu Abuser

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England, Leicestershire

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However the one from MA (via revolution) did show up late last week too!
I'm still waiting maybe the postman is walking

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12-13-2004 07:52 PM  13 years agoPost 277
Reesy

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In the doghouse ... Nottingham UK

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Mine has a cateye mod and shim
standard carb
I have a OMI modified Cspec carb+ ironbay regulator to try but would prefer to nail this first.

Paul

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12-13-2004 09:31 PM  13 years agoPost 278
RussD

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UK

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Hi Reesy,

I have to turn the responsitivity down to about 45% on my C-spec / MP2 / 30% Nitro / Perry Pumped / Viper head. I am running at 1562 hover and 1843 in idle -up. Revlock functions perfectly well with lower responsitivity levels.

The 1843 in idle-up puts me at 14750 on the engine, which is just into the advised 'just-past-peak power' on the MP2. 1562 in normal puts me at 12500 on the engine which appears to be off the 1/4 wave tuned effect of the MP2. If I try to run head-speeds in the middle of these values, I have to lower responsitivity to about 37-40 % as the pipe and govenor effects appear to slightly fight each other in certain manouvers.

In comparison, a RevLock equipped YS 91 on a 998 mufller does not exhibit the need to be fussy on head speed. This (Non-Factory) OS is good and has a touch more power than the YS. It is however a lot more critical to tune in our highly varied UK climate and the YS does not feel very far behind and is tottaly 'Out-Of-The-Box'. The only small price is a little more fuel consumption.

So I would certainly try dropping the responsitivity back to about 40% and see how this works out?

Electrics are continuing to look more and more applealing!

Hope this helps a little...

Russ.

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12-13-2004 09:42 PM  13 years agoPost 279
z11355

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New England

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Electrics are continuing to look more and more applealing!
Sorry but after Joker (1300), Plett (450),
Schulze ESC (650), 2 sets of batteries @ 850
each and the a good chance of burning your
house down, I'm not seeing it.

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12-13-2004 09:49 PM  13 years agoPost 280
RussD

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UK

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Hi z11355,

Thats a great big OUCH

Very sorry to hear that....

RussD.

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HelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Difference between CSM Rev-lock and TJ RevMax
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