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HelicopterOff Topics › I thought I heard it all, I was wrong
10-22-2004 02:55 AM  13 years agoPost 1
Isaiahsdad

rrApprentice

Midwest City,​Oklahoma

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10-22-2004 03:00 AM  13 years agoPost 2
tonysrepair

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portland oregon

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To mant lawyers with tooo much time on there hands not to mention tooo much money to waste on law suits . I think were paying them too much . time for a pay cut

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10-22-2004 03:26 AM  13 years agoPost 3
JWBurns

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The Lone Star State,​Dallas Texas

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Won't be long before animals have more rights than humans.... it's drawing near.

Jason

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10-22-2004 03:36 AM  13 years agoPost 4
MooneyDriver

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Kent, Ohio

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That's the point; lawyers are protecting their own; they are animals... (at least some of them!)

Hey man, why does my lipo get bigger every time I charge it?

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10-22-2004 04:32 AM  13 years agoPost 5
chas1025

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TN

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You should really consider the impact we "civilized humans" have on the environment and all other species that have just as much right to this planet.

Maybe this guy is someone who believes in something a little bigger than just himself.

If you live in an area where someone makes noise all the time wouldn't you call the police and expect them to stop making the noise? Maybe this advanced sonar actually causes harm to marine life including coral reefs, maybe the damage won't occur for another 75 years. It is good that someone was willing to make a stand for something in which he believed.

It comes down to sharing the planet, not just using it up as we see fit.

Thanks

Charles

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10-22-2004 04:38 AM  13 years agoPost 6
RappyTappy

rrProfessor

North Denver,​Colorado

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So, we stop long range sonar, what will a quiet sub making it close enough to launch a nuke do to the evironment?

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10-22-2004 04:38 AM  13 years agoPost 7
gwallace1

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Susanville, CA

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Just think, someone poneyed up some $$ to push that one that far up the flag pole.

Greg

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10-22-2004 04:59 AM  13 years agoPost 8
cannonfoo

rrNovice

Richmond, VA

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http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/1...ean_suit_fails/

theregister's coverage is so much more entertaining.

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10-22-2004 06:01 AM  13 years agoPost 9
debogus

rrApprentice

Beauklahoma,peoples​republic of​mexifornia,USSA

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?

"You should really consider the impact we "civilized humans" have on the environment and all other species that have just as much right to this planet"


I'm tired of the extremist left and their lawyers poluting the planet with their bs, which has been proven to destroy ozone layer and induce global warming .

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10-22-2004 06:07 AM  13 years agoPost 10
gwallace1

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Susanville, CA

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The same lawyers that are driving a huge gas guzzling SUV that they would promote in Detroit and put down at an Earth Day convention......hate to see someone like that running for prez.

Greg

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10-22-2004 07:11 PM  13 years agoPost 11
S_Owen

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Wichita Falls, TX.

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It is widely believed that the sonar system the Navy uses is responsible for many beachings and deaths of marine mammals. The belief is that the ping is so loud, it damages the ears, brains, and organs of these animals. Many beached dead whales have shown brain damage, ear damage, ruptured organs, hemorrhaging lungs, etc. etc. all attributed to exposure to the extremely high SPL levels from LFAS.

Truthfully, the LFAS system is the loudest underwater noise ever created by man, short of underwater explosions. It can get as loud as 240db. Sound pressure levels are logarithmic. A jet engine is about 140db or so. 240db is one billion times louder than 140db. To put that into perspective, if you were anywhere near the transducer when it "pinged", your skeleton would shatter, your brain and internal organs would liquefy, and you would die instantly.

Animals being able to sue is a little silly, but something should be done. New systems should be developed, something other than LFAS.

[b]Murphy's Constant:[/b] Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value.

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10-22-2004 10:16 PM  13 years agoPost 12
eSmith

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Edmonton, Alberta,​Canada

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Animals sue all the time, it was Animals who created the legal system... Mamals to be exact... simply a form of animal. We just let our egos ballon up and forget this.

I agree with s_owen. We're not saying Whales should be allowed to sue, that's simply foolish. But is it really considered that left wing to simply suggest it's not nessassary to slaghter other species recklessly.

Why not come up with a better way of detecting subs that doesn't destroy everything around it..

-eSmith.

http://www.edmheli.ca

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10-22-2004 11:10 PM  13 years agoPost 13
Isaiahsdad

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Midwest City,​Oklahoma

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It is moronic to think that sonar causes whales and dolphins to beach themselfs as this phenominon has been well documented for the past few hundred years not only here in the U.S. but in other countries as well.
Many beached dead whales have shown brain damage, ear damage, ruptured organs, hemorrhaging lungs, etc. etc. all attributed to exposure to the extremely high SPL levels from LFAS.
Scientists have determined that there are MANY other explanations as to the cause of these problems as well. These problems have also been well documented long before conventional sonar was used. Underwater earthquakes, siesmic (sp) activities, magma eruptions, can also cause these problems. I have seen data from the sosar warning data net that shows an underwater explosion near Hawaii that caused a preasure wave strong enough to crush a submarine. This explosion was caused by a magma burst just benieth the surface.

And the loudest underwater noise ever created by man was the atomic blast that took place just off the Bakini atol back in the early days of neuclear testing. The shock wave from that blast was heard arround the world.
To put that into perspective, if you were anywhere near the transducer when it "pinged", your skeleton would shatter, your brain and internal organs would liquefy, and you would die instantly.
Could you post something to support this statement please.

It is funny how people try and get there point across by over exagerating the facts to suit there purpose. They try and sound like an expert on a subject when truthfully, they know so very little. It is called bs.

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10-23-2004 03:45 AM  13 years agoPost 14
jerrythercpilot

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--South Florida --

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"Shave the Whales"


"Endangered Feces"


Nevermind.


Rosanna RosannaDana

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10-23-2004 09:42 PM  13 years agoPost 15
S_Owen

rrApprentice

Wichita Falls, TX.

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"bs" yeah? Educate yourself before coming down on others. Just because you are ignorant on the subject doesn't mean everyone is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel

[b]Murphy's Constant:[/b] Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value.

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10-24-2004 12:36 AM  13 years agoPost 16
Isaiahsdad

rrApprentice

Midwest City,​Oklahoma

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What I am wanting to know is where you got the information that the ping from the transducer is 240db? Can you show some documentation to prove your claim. I know the damage 240db can cause at certain frequencies and pulse width. Is that 240db tested in or out of the water. What is the pulse width and frequency. At what range is the ping considered safe. Can you show me data to prove, from a reliable source that the pings from LFAS is what caused the particular damage in the whales in question. I am well educated in underwater acoustics as I worked in the field for 10 years for a company called Datasonics. We developed many underwater acoustic devices. Sidescan sonar, deepscan mapping sonar. Acoustic beacons,and seafloor imaging systems that use chirp dsp technology. I know well the acoustic ranges of both ceramic, thermic fluid, and piazo transducers. I am not saying that LFAS works in this manner, but I do know that most sonar detecting systems of this type use very short, microsecond bursts at verying frequencies to avoid detection.

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10-24-2004 01:48 AM  13 years agoPost 17
S_Owen

rrApprentice

Wichita Falls, TX.

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pick one

http://www.alumni.ca/~zhan4m1/transback.htm
http://www.linkny.com/~civitas/page381.html
http://www.acsonline.org/issues/sou...encyAS-EIS.html
http://www.dolphinear.com/library-lfas.htm


"The speakers used by LFAS emit sounds as loud as 240dB and at frequencies of about 100 to 600Hz. In humans, exposure to sounds above 140dB cause hearing damage and sounds of 160dB cause instant deafness. Because low frequency sounds travel farther in water than sounds at higher frequencies, a ship operating LFAS can spread noise throughout thousands of square kilometers. "

"At a 1 mile radius from the ship the noise only dissipates to 180 db which causes a bubbling effect in marine mammals' blood stream which creates embolisms. At 100 mile radius from the ship the noise only drops to 160 db which causes shearing of the tissues in the air sack behind whales' and dolphins' brain. This air sack is highly sensitive since it is used in echo location. This shearing of tissue then causes hemorrhaging in their brains."


Want more?
Listen to LFAS http://www.dolphinear.com/sounds/lfas.wav
But, to hear it correctly, your speakers need to be able to produce volume equivalent to that of a nuclear blast.

[b]Murphy's Constant:[/b] Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value.

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10-24-2004 02:04 AM  13 years agoPost 18
debogus

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Beauklahoma,peoples​republic of​mexifornia,USSA

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Allright we developed perpetual motion .
I sure it would hurt at 2 ft But I'm pretty sure is dissipates with distance as everything does.

It only drops 80 db in a 100 miles ..through water . I want more studies .
There has to be a agenda.

Dave

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10-24-2004 02:16 AM  13 years agoPost 19
S_Owen

rrApprentice

Wichita Falls, TX.

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rWATER =1.025 gm./cm3, rAIR =1.298(10)-3 gm./cm3,

CWATER=1490 meters/sec., CAIR = 332 meters/sec.

Water is denser than air. Sound waves travel farther, faster. And, for the same acoustic output, the pressure wave is 600 times stronger.

[b]Murphy's Constant:[/b] Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value.

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10-24-2004 04:15 AM  13 years agoPost 20
jerrythercpilot

rrVeteran

--South Florida --

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Debogus,
yes it dissapates as a function of 1/r2.

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