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HelicopterMain Discussion › FAA'S CRASH RESULTS??
10-24-2004 03:26 AM  13 years agoPost 21
mcatech

rrVeteran

Mount Gambier SA​Australia

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The Worlds too Full of Spoilsports
its an inspiration to see a Full Scale Aircraft at an rc show
and anyone who disagrees should question thier choice of hobby
I also fly full scale Planks and no pilot I know would put there life or others in danger in fact full scale Pilots would generally have a
very thorough knowlege of there machine and outside factors than any car Driver
too get your car license you can be a dumb **** but as long as you have $100 and know which lever is the indicator switch your have your license
too get your pilots license you have many hours of intensive study
of how to recover from bad situations, how an engine works fuel systems, aerodynamics, meteorolgy etc

Definately the most dangerous aspect of going to a funfly with full scale machines is the road trip there

to anyone who disagrees I would suggest you keep quiet and stay wrapped up in your cotton wool at home and let others enjoy what life has to offer if theres no risk theres no fun
Cheers Michael

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10-24-2004 03:56 AM  13 years agoPost 22
Jason Cummings

rrVeteran

St. Louis

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I agree with ctseaplane on the low wing at ircha. It was so close I could have thrown my transmitter at it and hit it. It was way too close!

Synergy Field Rep

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10-24-2004 04:10 AM  13 years agoPost 23
greenboot

rrVeteran

Marblehead, OH

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Definately the most dangerous aspect of going to a funfly with full scale machines is the road trip there
That statement has gotten a lot of use over the years. I wonder if Bungee jumpers use it too?

Flying is fun and can be done safely. But I've witnessed one fatal plane crash and one fatal car crash; that's a pretty bad ratio considering the number cars and planes I've seen in my life.

Tom
CFII 2131489, learned to fly in 1969

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10-24-2004 08:56 PM  13 years agoPost 24
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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In this country (USA), there has been about 50,000 +/- 5,000 (not a typo) deaths, not accidents, every year from motor vehicles. This only counts what happens on our roads.

Now we see one NON-fatal heli crash and everybody gets all excited.

The reactions I have seen on this issue show imaturity and ignorance.

People, get a perspective, get a life and get on with it.

Wolfgang

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10-24-2004 11:57 PM  13 years agoPost 25
Wildcat Fuels

rrApprentice

Lexington, Ky

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From the horse.

Well, let me see. I guess since I am the only person on here to both fly RC and full scale and have experienced a crash at an event I am the most qualified to respond to this issue. That does not mean my opinion is the right one "its just mine". First I want to correct the record, I have 500+ hours (more not recorded and logged) in aircraft in various types, single engine aircraft from Cessna 150, Cessna 172, Grummans, Beechcraft, Citabria's, T-34, and other fighter trainers. I have flown Bell's, Enstrom, and Schwietzer helicopters. I have many hours in each type and in excess of 100 hours. I had around 60 hours "in type" before the crash. Many pilots have gone to War with less time than that.

IRCHA 2004: I approached Ron a year before we brought the Bell to the show and he took it to the board, they approaved. The flight operations were VERY controlled from run up to shut down. I was not allowed to turn a key with out prior consent and coordination with a flight line director with a radio. Each time I flew the helicopter and performed a BASIC flight maneuver it was discussed and approved before hand by Ron and the flight line coordinator and monitored by radio. NO maneuver was performed before the crowd that in the event of an engine failure that would endanger the spectators. I know every full scale pilot out there has the same respect for the aircaft as I do and we accept the fact that if the aircraft fails we would protect the spectators even at the loss of our own lives if necessary. I was taught and always trained to protect the lives on the ground FIRST and SECOND to save our own lives, then THIRD to save the aircraft IF possible. In the case of IRCHA, flight operations were NEVER on approach or departure over the heads of the spectators for this very reason.

AIR SHOWS AND HELI's: I have had many thank me for bringing and flying the Bell at IRCHA, and that it was the high point of the event for them. Personally I feel the same, I attend NUMEROUS air shows as you can imagine and I love to see the real thing taxi up. I fly models....models of full scales...thats what we do....if it were not for full scales we would not have a hobby.

SAFETY: I do agree, however, with many of the comments about full scales at shows. It must be done with the utmost care for the safety of the spectators and the full scale pilots. I was at "Heart of ****" one year when they arranged for an F-100 to do a low high speed fly by at 50 feet. It came so close you could feel the heat of the after burner in the pull up....great idea...probably not ...but I wouldn't have missed it for the world and it made the event. I flew an air show recently "CT SEAPLANE" was there, where I flew some aerobatics in my Citabria. Once again, I flew them not over the spectators and at altitude. I had several people beg to come up with me and after a waiver was signed I took a few. They had a great time, however, a gentleman there (that is an very experienced Aerobatics instructor) flew a touch and go in front of the spectators at about 30 feet from the crowd. I thought this was not a good idea. I also heard about the High Preformance doing the knife edge at IRCHA, once again, not a good idea. Having said that, to equate those with what we did at IRCHA is a great leap, in fact I would argue that it was because we took so many safegaurds to our participation that not only did the spectators get to see a full scale Bell in pristine form but that when something did go wrong that NO spectator or property was damaged or injured.

AS FOR THE FUTURE: I recently got married and am in the process of getting settled in, but I will tell you that I will be back in choppers as soon as possible. Probably Enstroms because I have a local company that rents them. Helicopters are by design more dificult to operate, but that is why we that fly them love them....you are really doing something when you fly one. As for bringing a ship to IRCHA, probably not, mainly because of this thread. It is my job to provide hobby products to the industry and I have to be cognicent of the people involved and their feelings...but I sure hope someone else does.

There are not many times in life you get the chance to express to others your feelings as to a situation such as mine. I am very grateful that I am able to be here with my family and have the chance fly again. I attribute this with great training from several top notch helicopter pilots and a very good ship the Bell-47, but I mainly give thanks to God for this result. Most others that were there, including 2 Cobra pilots, said we should be a planter not walking around with just a scratch, so to him that is my friend and God...thanks.

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10-25-2004 06:02 PM  13 years agoPost 26
rob_jones

rrKey Veteran

Perry, GA

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Something that Jerry didn't point out is that the engine failure and subsequent crash occured at an airport and not at the IRCHA site. I was there and never saw Jerry take off or land anywhere near the flight line. He flew in from the airport, and then returned after the demo flight.

The crash occured as he was leaving the airport and not during a demo flight. I would guess that the crash site was at least 1/4 mile from the IRCHA flight line.

Blade 550X, T-Rex 450 Pro FBL

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10-25-2004 06:43 PM  13 years agoPost 27
wsteve

rrApprentice

Pasadena, Texas

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It is sad to see people that can't apperciate what a full scale aircarft brings to these events. They get on a thread like this and bash the pilots and aircarft that we try to model. Most model pilots would sell every model they had for a fullscale if they could afford to own and operate one. There are a few such as Jerry that have the oppurtunity to do both but they are the exception not the norm. We just had our local fun fly and had 3 full scale heli's fly in with great success and no problems. I truly do appreciate the pilot's like Jerry that are willing to share his good furtune and give me the oppurtunity to see the full scale and maybe even the chance to ride in a full scale aircraft. I think that full scale aircraft only bring postives to an R/C event and encourage it when ever possible. If I could afford it I would fly a full scale out to the feild just to go flying every weekend. I guess threads like this just go to show you that one bad apple can ruin a whole pie. I just like to say that if Jerry ever want to fly in at one of our events he will always be welcome.

If God meant man to fly, He'd have given him more money

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10-25-2004 08:04 PM  13 years agoPost 28
greenboot

rrVeteran

Marblehead, OH

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It's a shame such a beautifully restored heli crashed. But I didn't think this thread was supposed to be a tribute to it. Rather just a discussion of the incident. As expected, everyone feels bad it happened and some people are reflecting on other somewhat related events.

All you guys that witnessed it first hand had your chance to discuss it among yourselves. The rest of us that don't have all the facts can talk about it too!

Tom

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10-25-2004 09:59 PM  13 years agoPost 29
Jason Cummings

rrVeteran

St. Louis

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On 2 occasions last year I witnessed two irresponsible fullscale demos. One was a flightline touch and go that actually scattered Team Hirobo (except Steve, he was asleep or something) back to the pits.

Deer in the headlights!

Synergy Field Rep

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10-26-2004 04:58 PM  13 years agoPost 30
Wildcat Fuels

rrApprentice

Lexington, Ky

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Full Scale

I agree with CTSEAPLANE about those two incidents completely. I have often flown to our local field and landed on our control line circle far away from the flight line. It worked well, mainly because the guys at my local club know me and knew that I was responsible and would not take chances with their safety. It always struck me funny about the guys running up and down the flight line yelling to me at IRCHA, as Jerry said, because there is know way you can hear them. Since we had a IRCHA rep on the headset I couldn't figure out what they were doing. Most of the guys have a good healthy respect for the full scales. I wish some of the pilots took the models as seriously. I saw many instances where scary things were done by the flyers that were (not in there skill level or on the edge of control ability) that should have not happened. We had this problem in RC jets for the longest time, 300+mph low passes within 25 feet of the flightline, ect... This over time has gotten better, but only after some VERY close calls woke some people up. Now, before I get someone mad, I am not saying anything critical except to say that we ALL get complacent that the models are only at the mercy of a micro second glitch and that we should err on the side of safety. I learned too well how a small problem can result in a less than desirable conclusion. By the way, the problem with the engine turned out to be electrical in nature....very minor...but with catostrophic results.

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10-27-2004 03:27 AM  13 years agoPost 31
warner11

rrNovice

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If you want to attend the perfect ,safest, best run fun fly, organize one youself, then we can all bash it because we didnt like the fact that you couldnt control everything that went on, to our liking, and preference.I want to see the full scale again at IRCHA. Most fun flies announce they are having a full scale demo. Of course they will shut down the flight line, people will be shouting, and it will be a big deal, If you dont like the planned agenda, the 3D is scary, or the Full Scale is too dangerous, stay home.

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10-27-2004 05:40 AM  13 years agoPost 32
AA8VL

rrApprentice

Columbus, Ohio

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Jerry,

Please bring another next year! This time let me have shot gun!!!

Save time when crossing a one-way street by only looking in one direction

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10-27-2004 12:49 PM  13 years agoPost 33
Copter Doctor

rrProfessor

Enterprise/ft.rucker​,al- home of army​aviation

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yeah Jerry,
please dont let this thread keep you from returning in what i thought was the nicest ride to go to IRCHA in. i witnessed the accident and knowing how well into the deadman's curve you were, my hat's off to you. i know i am not alone in saying your bell there made my weekend at irchA.

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