RunRyder RC
 7  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 1 page 1063 views
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterCentury Radikal G20-30 N640 Hawk Predator › Hawk Bell Mixer ratios & faster cyclic?
10-21-2004 01:03 AM  13 years agoPost 1
janked

rrApprentice

Spokane, WA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Need a little clarification on which way to change the mixing ratio on the Hawk's Bell Mixers so that I can speed up the cyclic response a little more. I've searched on this and and I get two different opinions. I'm running FG 550's.

One opinion is to change the short ball to a medium ball if running FG blades.

The other opinion is to replace the long ball with a medium ball.

I don't know which way is best.

David

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-21-2004 01:37 AM  13 years agoPost 2
SteveH

rrProfessor

Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Janked,

As far as cyclic speed vers mixer ratio is concerned, you want a short ball on the side with the rod to the swash, and a long ball on the side with the rod to the seesaw.

There are other things you should do first, however, to speed up the Hawks cyclic response. What have you done to so far?

Also, keep in mind, any changes you make to the mixing ratio will require you to re-setup the pitch curves.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-21-2004 05:10 AM  13 years agoPost 3
janked

rrApprentice

Spokane, WA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thanks for the reply SteveH,

I crashed recently and since I have to rebuild it, changing the pitch curves is not really a big deal. I thought I would go ahead and change a few more things if they will help.

Here is what I have done so far:

Installed thrust bearing upgrade
Installed 4mm flybar conversion
I'm using the grey Predator paddles
I changed the small balls on the swash to match the longer ones
I changed the balls on the seesaw output to the special long balls

I'm thinking about flipping the bell mixers over (so the stand-offs are to to outside) to increase pitch a little and hopefully cyclic response a little also.

I'm getting about 6 degrees cyclic pitch.

They grey predator paddles seem to fly fairly well, but I do need a lot more forward trim in my full switchless inverted flight mode to maintain straight and level flight while in FFF. The stock Hawk paddles needed less forward trim, but were nowhere near as fast. The extra forward trim gets a little difficult while inverted sometimes. I checked the CG with a half of tank of fuel and it looks right on at the skids.

Does changing the mixing ratio really make enough of a difference to warrant changing it? I still have a lot to learn.

David

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-21-2004 08:01 AM  13 years agoPost 4
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

sorry


Jim

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-21-2004 12:28 PM  13 years agoPost 5
SteveH

rrProfessor

Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

David,

It sounds like you've done most of what I could suggest already. Flipping the Bell mixers inside out will help a little, or you cou add the optional Machined Adjustable Bell mixer option: http://www.heli-world.com/Merchant2...&Category_Code=

These will give you a little more flexability in your adjustments and will improve response a little in the fastest setting.

With respect to your elevator trim while inverted, don't know what radio you are using, but if you can, mix a little up elevator in from negative pitch and that will help with the inverted trim.

Let us know how you come out.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-21-2004 04:28 PM  13 years agoPost 6
oldfart

rrProfessor

Vancouver, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Just a thought

Janked,

Reviewing what you have done you should have a relative quick cyclic response if your rotor speed remains constant at 1750 to 1850. The key words there are "remains constant".

Without mixing any cyclic to throttle (specially on a 32 size ship) whenever you give a cyclic command, the rotor speed will blled off. Less rotor speed means less cyclic acceleration.

If your throttle is opened to a soecific setting to carry whatever collective load that you have and you add any cyclic, then you are adding a bigger load to the engine. If you do not compensate by having the throttle barrel open more as you added this cyclic, then the roetor speed will bleed off (on a thirty this can be a good number).

So I suggest that you go into your mixing software and mix in some aileron-throttle and some elevator to throttle - on a thirty you will probably need at least 60%.

You may want to check out the article in the hints and tips section on faster cyclic on our web site:
http://www.leisuretech.ca

Phil Noel
Leisure-Tech Products
Century/Canada

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-21-2004 05:07 PM  13 years agoPost 7
wedge

rrElite Veteran

Victoria BC, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I tried to acess you hints and tips on faster cyclic, and it doesn't work??

Will

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-21-2004 08:42 PM  13 years agoPost 8
oldfart

rrProfessor

Vancouver, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

wedge

Sorry about that....try it now.

Phil

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-21-2004 11:44 PM  13 years agoPost 9
wedge

rrElite Veteran

Victoria BC, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thank you, very good write up.

Will

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-22-2004 04:11 AM  13 years agoPost 10
janked

rrApprentice

Spokane, WA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thanks for the good info guys.

I'm going to flip the bell mixers over as I said earlier and I'm also going to switch the long balls on the bell mixers to the medium balls and see how it reacts. It's kind of funny though. I'm sitting here staring at the head and I'm trying to get it straight in my mind as to exactly how changing the ratio effects the cyclic speed. Is there a simple explanation on how changing the ratio actually effects things? I need to understand how this works better so I know exactly what I'm doing when I change things. Maybe I'm just tired.

One question regarding the 60% increase on the mixing:
Do you mean a 60% throttle increase on all extremes of the cyclic throw? I've heard of running up to a 30% increase, but not 60%. Just want to get it right. Let me know.

David

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-26-2004 01:44 AM  13 years agoPost 11
oldfart

rrProfessor

Vancouver, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

throttlr mixing

In a nutshell, what it means is that at MAXIMUM cyclic throw it will try to add 60% more throttle to the limit of the throttle opening (100%).

Anything stick position in between will have a corresponding amount of throttle added. e.g. If you only moved the elevator stick back 50% then it would only add 30% more throttle, if you only moved the elevator stick back 25% , the mix would add only 15% more throttle, or at the stick back 75% it would try to add 45% more throttle.

Needless to say if you are at MAX collective and 100% throttle and now added a hard cyclic command there woul be no extra throttle for the mix to give. All that would happen is that you would bleed off rotor speed.

The article in the himnts and tips section of our site:
http://www.leisuretech.ca explain it all in more detail

Phil

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 1 page 1063 views
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterCentury Radikal G20-30 N640 Hawk Predator › Hawk Bell Mixer ratios & faster cyclic?
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 7  Topic Subscribe

Tuesday, November 21 - 3:43 pm - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online