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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › 2 questions
10-20-2004 06:39 PM  13 years agoPost 1
cainebean

rrApprentice

USA

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1. I was trying to setup my throttle cut switch to work but I couldn't ever get it to work properly. It would idle way down but it would take about a minute to finally die. So I adjusted the screw on the bottom of the carb that controls how much the throttle will close to allow it to close completely. It went from the screw being centered to about 1/4th of the screw. Throttle kill works perfectly now but the engine doesn't sound as sharp when hovering. When in a good hover, we can give it fast throttle and the tail swings slightly to the right and the engine seems like it is bogging down. It doesn't drop out of the sky, it just has a small bounce. Should I put the screw back to the center and try again to adjust this with the throttle control rods? Or do I just need to adjust my needles to compensate for moving the set screw?

2. I left the set screw at about 1/4 like above and got out my friendly BillMe cheat sheet. I set the needles to 1 1/4 H and 1 3/8 L. Went out flying this morning at 7:30 AM and everything worked out perfectly for the first half of tank. There wasn't any tail movement or bogging down sound from hover. I sat it down for maybe 45 seconds to get myself back together while it idled. Took it back up again and the tail started to move again and the bogging down noise came around again. I was flying tail in and looked at the tank and noticed a lot of vibration in the tank which wasn't there before. I'm just looking for any advice I can get on getting my needles properly set.

This is the Jr Gasser with the 230 in it with a 603 carb running amsoil 64:1. Gy 401 on the tail.

I'm going out in a few minutes to see what happens. I read in another BillMe thread that he is suggesting 1 3/8 on both needles but I don't remember what engine he was suggesting this about. So I may move my needles to this position to see what happens. I guess to me, it seems like if it was bogging down with a fast movement of the throttle, it would be too rich. I may be wrong and please tell me if I am.

TIA

Bean

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10-20-2004 07:42 PM  13 years agoPost 2
cainebean

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USA

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Ok I'm back

So I went out at lunch and adjusted the needles to 1 3/8 on both. First half of tank was perfect other than the tail just barely moving...This might be a gyro problem. I just remember reading that the tail would move if you were to lean so I haven't started down the gyro road yet. Bring it down and regroup and take it back up. I notice some gas dripping from the skids so I pull it in closer to see where it is coming from. It is coming from the rubber grommet that is on the tank. I tried to tighten it up but it wanted to spin.

Do you think this could be the cause of all of my problems?

Bean

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10-21-2004 05:37 PM  13 years agoPost 3
cainebean

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USA

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??

63 views and no one has any thoughts about this? Am I asking the wrong questions or not giving enough info?

Bean

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10-21-2004 05:59 PM  13 years agoPost 4
aashu

rrKey Veteran

scotch plains, NJ

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Well

I am not too familiar with JR fuel tank setup . However, in the last you mentioned that the Rubber Gourmet is kinda loose and fuel is dripping from it . Is that somewhere near at half tank position ? If that is so , you may want to fix it.
Probably before fuel level reaches that gourmet , it is running a little leaner because of the fuel loss however after it passes that position , it gets richer and starts to bog down which would directly affect your tail.

Just a wild guess

Garden State, NJ

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10-21-2004 07:11 PM  13 years agoPost 5
cainebean

rrApprentice

USA

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tank

The tank has a grommet in the top 25% of the tank. I'll pull the tank and see if that helps. Thanks for responding.

Bean

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10-21-2004 07:16 PM  13 years agoPost 6
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

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Bean,
With respect to the kill switch, the "idle adjust screw" (NOT ONE OF THE MIXTURE SCREWS) has zero effect on the mixture, so I'm not sure how you got interaction. You should screw out the idle adjust screw until the butterfly can be closed all the way. We don't even need the idle adjust screw for our purposes.

> I just remember reading that the tail would move if you were to lean

Actually, you will get tail kicks when it is rich on the low end, not lean. Lean will cause vibrations.

As to the fuel tank, the gas carbs do not rely on any pressure in the tank as they pump themselves. I'm not sure how a leak could effect your mixture unless it starts sucking air into the fuel line.

> I was flying tail in and looked at the tank and noticed a lot of vibration
> in the tank which wasn't there before.

Could an abnormal level vibration be causing your fuel to slush around and thus let air get sucked into the fuel line? Can you get one of the Stens filter/pickup units?

- John

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10-21-2004 07:22 PM  13 years agoPost 7
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

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Also, what plug and gap size are you using?

I ask because my plug gap was too large and it was causing me several issues... Harder to start then it should have been, mixture inconstancies, and the mixture changing too much as the fuel tank level changed. Fixing the plug gap fixed all of that.

- John

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10-21-2004 07:33 PM  13 years agoPost 8
cainebean

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USA

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Jkos

I'll have to check on the gap but I just bought 4 Champion BMR7A's. I'm pretty sure that was the number... Someone here suggested I get them and gap them to .23. I do feel like I have mixture changes so I'll replace the plug and see what happens.

I don't know why I had the mixture change when we changed the Idle screw. Maybe all of this is a combination of the tank and the plug. Well I hope so.

I'll put your comments about rich kicking and lean vibrating on my cheat sheet! Before I know it, I'm going to use the whole page.

I think I figured out my vibration issues. I'm still running my training gear but they are cut down to just a few inches on each side. Today I noticed they were causing the vibration. Duh! I'm still running the training gear because we use this for a camera ship. I'm adding the exact weight of the platform and camera to my training gear to simulate the difference in weight. I'm currently training but I have a pilot that flys when we have a job. I just couldn't invest that much money into my system without learning how to fly. Thanks for all of your help.

Bean

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10-21-2004 08:06 PM  13 years agoPost 9
Billme

rrElite Veteran

MS

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I would check the fuel pick up...Put your needles back where it was running good before this started...When it does it again, try raising your rotor rpm .. If your training, you might not have enough negitive pitch to allow the engine to catch up and build speed when spooling up...You can have a good tune system, and move from -6 to + 1 at idle, and have this problem...
1 3/8s on both needles are for the 231.. Yours is for the older engine, with the newer carb...Your low should be between 13/8s to 11/4.. Your high should be between 1 1/4 to 11/8..
Bill

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10-21-2004 08:43 PM  13 years agoPost 10
gyan

rrKey Veteran

Surrey, BC Canada or​Blaine Wa.

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BMR-7A is a NGK # I hope you are not using Champion plugs they're awful!! My gasser was glitching with a new Champion resistor plug . I changed it then it was fine.

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10-21-2004 08:47 PM  13 years agoPost 11
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

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Bill, do you also recommend the NGK CR7HIX for the G230?

I mentioned above what setting the gap correctly on the stock plug did for me. Well, changing to the CR7HIX made it even better!

- John

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10-21-2004 10:47 PM  13 years agoPost 12
cainebean

rrApprentice

USA

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Thanks

Thanks for the tips. Bill I'll move everything to your suggestions and see what happens from there. I found the clunk you suggested so I'll have that in soon.

Bean

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10-22-2004 12:00 AM  13 years agoPost 13
Billme

rrElite Veteran

MS

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John, the older engines want except the newer 10mm plugs... If he needs a hottor plug, then BMR6A...Hummm, you could make a insert to make them fit though, I guess...
Bill

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10-22-2004 03:51 PM  13 years agoPost 14
Flying Tivo

rrKey Veteran

Monterrey,NL,Mexico

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Bill

can you mention the gap for the iridium plug please?

Felipe

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10-22-2004 04:21 PM  13 years agoPost 15
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

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I'm sure Bill knows the gap on the NGK iridium plug, but he'll also tell you not to mess with it. Take it out of the box, put it in the engine, and use it. It is my understanding that these high-end NGK plugs are much more consistent from the factory and don't need any adjustment.

From reading about these plugs... The gap on the fine-electrode iridium plugs is larger than for a standard plug. The fine-electrode makes spark generation easier. A larger gap exposes more of the air/fuel mixture to the spark and thus should produce a better burn.

- John

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10-22-2004 05:35 PM  13 years agoPost 16
Billme

rrElite Veteran

MS

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Johns correct, they recommend leaving them alone because you may damage the electrode..


Felipe,
Sounds like its going to be a gasser gathering at Fallfest..It will be good to see you again my friend...Are your buddys coming with you ?
Regards
Bill

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10-22-2004 06:00 PM  13 years agoPost 17
Flying Tivo

rrKey Veteran

Monterrey,NL,Mexico

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Bill

Im making the most out of my shchedule so i can go. I would really enjoy seeing you, and you seeing my new Acrobat.

Felipe

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10-29-2004 05:12 PM  13 years agoPost 18
cainebean

rrApprentice

USA

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update

I've put in a new tank with all new lines and have my needles setup as Bill suggested. Took it out this morning and everything worked perfectly except I had hard tail kicks to the right when I give it full throttle. When just hovering I had the slight tail kicks that everyone speaks of but giving it FT is a different story.

This is on the JR Gasser, 401 gyro, and I'm not sure what my tail blade length. I could be wrong, and please tell me if I am, but I thought if this was a gyro issue it would "Hunt" more than just a kick at full throttle. I'm leaning towards longer tail blades.

Bean

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10-29-2004 06:56 PM  13 years agoPost 19
Flying Tivo

rrKey Veteran

Monterrey,NL,Mexico

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Whats your gyro gain, head speed and blade length? If you hover enough time paying close attention at the engine sound you will start to learn if the engine is doing hickups because of being rich(most likely), or the gain being to high on your gyro(not much likely).
I have a 502 and usually start around 40-45, when braking in the engine so the servo does not have to fight the richness of the engine.

start leaning slowly!!!!!

Felipe

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10-30-2004 04:22 PM  13 years agoPost 20
ELOSSAM

rrVeteran

Es

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Sounds like a gyro gain excess or a lack of power on your tail servo. It happened to me time ago and first I tried to reduce gain about 5%. no luck, then I set the tail servo linkage one hole inner (the 3th one from the center) and it was solved
(GY401 + FS9253)

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