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HelicopterHIROBOOther › ccpm
10-19-2004 02:24 PM  13 years agoPost 1
groran

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CALIFORNIA CITY,​California

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When will hirobo make a ccpm 60 to 90 size or just a 90 size? I love the eagle 98, but I'm not gonna spend $368 on a ccpm upgrade.Robbe has an upgrade for $179 with same components in the pics, whats up with hirobo.

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10-19-2004 02:32 PM  13 years agoPost 2
MrDHEJ

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Taylorsville,​Kentucky, USA

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Basiclly eCCPM is inferferior to mechanical CCPM because of interaction, and hirobo knows it and i commend them for standing up to that instead of giving in to popularity "even though they do offer the upgrade". Only advantage eCCPM has over mechanical is redundancy on 90, and load sharing on 120degree. Have you seen the new Eagle III setup? very spiffy.

Even Curtis Youngblood switched to mechanical at the worlds because he was getting his toosh handed to him. Ok, it might not have been that bad, but even he see's the advantage the mechanical mix has over eCCPM.

Never go full retard!

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10-19-2004 02:33 PM  13 years agoPost 3
z11355

rrMaster

New England

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you could probably save a boatload of $$
by buying the ccpm upgrade from HongKong.

that said, I dont think its overly fair to say that
the Robbe kit is the same as the Hirobo kit.

the Hirobo swash by itself is over $120 (more like
$150-180)

Funny how everyone wants to switch to eCCPM
when the Robbe System88 or the Hirobo mCCPM
is better performing than most any eCCPM

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10-19-2004 03:49 PM  13 years agoPost 4
blakka_1

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London/Enfield

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Basiclly eCCPM is inferferior to mechanical CCPM because of interaction, and hirobo knows it and i commend them for standing up to that instead of giving in to popularity
The new Hirobo eagle Twister 3d heli "CCPM" - http://model2.hirobo.co.jp/products...916/0414916.htm

guess they gave up to the popularity

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10-19-2004 04:02 PM  13 years agoPost 5
MrDHEJ

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Taylorsville,​Kentucky, USA

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Looks like an X-Spec with the eCCPM upgrade. Oh well, most know the truth, and those that don't can be educated.

Never go full retard!

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10-19-2004 04:05 PM  13 years agoPost 6
Dr Lodge

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Guildford, Surrey -​UK

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Only advantage eCCPM has over mechanical is redundancy on 90, and load sharing on 120degree.
There's also the issue of faster collective response since with eCCPM the servos have less distance to travel, assuming everything else being equal of course.

Now, I believe the 9Z WCII has a feature that allows servos to operate in a "linear" fashion - so can't that be used to remove the non-lineararities?

Vibe 90, Vibe 50, Vigor CS x2,
Dyna-x, Knight 503D, Logo 10,
TRex 500, Furion, Gaui EP200

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10-19-2004 04:08 PM  13 years agoPost 7
MrDHEJ

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Taylorsville,​Kentucky, USA

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Now, I believe the 9Z WCII has a feature that allows servos to operate in a "linear" fashion - so can't that be used to remove the non-lineararities?
Only if you have linear servos, which are very expensive, there is always going to be mechanical diffirential. unless you go the eagle 3 setup.

Never go full retard!

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10-19-2004 04:26 PM  13 years agoPost 8
MrDHEJ

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Taylorsville,​Kentucky, USA

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I should point out that it is possible to make mCCPM tottaly linear with the use of expo, as long as the geometery in the linkage is correct, but the only way to make eCCPM is to use linear servos.

Never go full retard!

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10-19-2004 04:41 PM  13 years agoPost 9
blakka_1

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London/Enfield

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what are you MrDHEJ? a competition FAI flier or something. who cares if the servos doesnt travel 100% linear. if a ccpm heli is setup correctly the interaction isnt even noticable unless your names jason krause, even he doesnt seem to have a problem with the "all so bad ccpm interaction "

honestly i dont mean to sound bitchy but what does 1-3% of interaction matter? especially if you cant feel or see it in flight.

if your ccpm heli has noticable interaction in flight then i'd blame the pilot for poor setup not the ccpm system.

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10-19-2004 04:54 PM  13 years agoPost 10
MrDHEJ

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Taylorsville,​Kentucky, USA

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As far as piloting skills i'm a newb. But when i switch from my Hirobo's to my vario benzin trainer even i can notice the interaction, and it is setup corectly. And it's closer to 10 to 13% not 1 to 3. if you have a eCCPM machine and a pair of calipers, measure the travel differance from 0 pitch to full pitch, then measure when you add cyclic.

Never go full retard!

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10-19-2004 04:58 PM  13 years agoPost 11
Dr Lodge

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Guildford, Surrey -​UK

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The point I was making is that the 9Z WCII has a feature to automatically dial in the necessary expo, that makes normal servos act like linear ones. Surely if you do this, all the interaction will disappear?

Vibe 90, Vibe 50, Vigor CS x2,
Dyna-x, Knight 503D, Logo 10,
TRex 500, Furion, Gaui EP200

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10-19-2004 05:16 PM  13 years agoPost 12
carcrasher

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east coast

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dr.lodge
what menu is this found in?

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10-19-2004 05:22 PM  13 years agoPost 13
Dr Lodge

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Guildford, Surrey -​UK

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Page 62 of the manual, under "Adjustable Function Rate"

"If the LIN mode is defined within the EXP1 mode, you can make an ordinary rotary servo have similar motion to that of a linear servo. In other words, the rotary servo moves more the further it is away from neutral, to simulate a linear output, which moves the same amount regardless of servo position."

The manual is here

Vibe 90, Vibe 50, Vigor CS x2,
Dyna-x, Knight 503D, Logo 10,
TRex 500, Furion, Gaui EP200

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10-19-2004 05:26 PM  13 years agoPost 14
I3DM

rrProfessor

Israel

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Dr. Lodge, thats interesting, sounds a little like Expo... closer to the center = less movement.

www.liorzahavi.com

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10-19-2004 05:35 PM  13 years agoPost 15
Dr Lodge

rrElite Veteran

Guildford, Surrey -​UK

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Yes, exactly right I3DM. Of course, this relies on the proper setting up of servos so that everything is perpendicular and central etc with the servos at middle position. I should try this on my 140 deg eCCPM Vigor CS!

Vibe 90, Vibe 50, Vigor CS x2,
Dyna-x, Knight 503D, Logo 10,
TRex 500, Furion, Gaui EP200

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10-19-2004 07:29 PM  13 years agoPost 16
MrDHEJ

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Taylorsville,​Kentucky, USA

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From what i read, all the LIN button does is add -16% expo, you could of course set it to -16% manually and obtain the same thing.

Never go full retard!

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10-19-2004 07:42 PM  13 years agoPost 17
z11355

rrMaster

New England

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where did you that?

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10-19-2004 08:09 PM  13 years agoPost 18
EChapkis

rrVeteran

Tampa, FL

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interaction

blakka_1,

1-3% interaction will be felt if you know what you are looking for.

Don't talk about JK not feeling it, if it is there, he'll feel it. Also, being a heavy 3D flier, it may not be as important to an FAI flier.

The Twister was specificaly designed as a 3D heli, not a FAI heli.

I have had 1 ECCPM machine and hated it. I will be getting an Avant which will be ECCPM and I'll compare it to my 91 Freya and EVO 50.

Evan Chapkis Tampa, Florida

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10-19-2004 08:21 PM  13 years agoPost 19
blakka_1

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London/Enfield

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Don't talk about JK not feeling it
errr.... i think you'll find that i DID NOT say that jason krause wouldnt feel interaction. I said "unless your names jason krause".I was implying that only jason krause would be able to get interaction to become so bad that it would be noticable in the air and therefore disturb his flying.

you guys are moaning and groaning about ccpm interaction,non linear travels, and saying how mccpm is better blah blah blah.

then after all of that half of you guys are gonna go and get the avant CCPM upgrade for the freya( which i wouldnt blame you for, it looks like a masterpiece, and i would get it also if i owned a freya ). next thing you know the avant is the best thing since sliced bread, and you'll be saying that with the avant theres no interaction what so ever, blah blah blah.

some of you guys just dont make sense.

mccpm is brilliant i admit, but if ccpm i so bad then why the hell is the avant being made with the ccpm system?, ccpm has its advantages as well as its disadvantages.

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10-19-2004 08:30 PM  13 years agoPost 20
blakka_1

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London/Enfield

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-3% interaction will be felt if you know what you are looking for.
for you to find that 3% interaction you would have to give some mad, ultra fast stick inputs for it to be seen in the air ( considering your heli has been well setup )

interaction can be seen on the table when giving crazy stick inputs, but you'll never put those stick inputs in while your airbourne otherwise your heli will be hitting deck.

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HelicopterHIROBOOther › ccpm
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