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HelicopterMain Discussion › scale the power plant
10-18-2004 07:00 PM  13 years agoPost 1
Benthicrov

rrNovice

smithfield,va

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Does any one fly a scale model helicopter that also scales the power plant correctly? In other words, have the same power to weight ratio in the model as exists in the actual full scale helicopter. From what I have observed in model planes and also helicopters they seem to be vastly overpowered as the real planes and choppers cannot perform like the models do.

Thanks,

Jeff K

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10-18-2004 07:04 PM  13 years agoPost 2
SteveH

rrProfessor

Texas

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Jeff,

What you are advocating, scale power to weight, is a nobel thought, but it won't work because we do not have the same lift to weight ratio of the full scale.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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10-18-2004 07:10 PM  13 years agoPost 3
frankg11

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Bellevue, WA

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Remember,

Big Molecules small area lifting surfaces. AKA Reynolds numbers.

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10-18-2004 07:12 PM  13 years agoPost 4
Doug

rrElite Veteran

Port Saint Luice​Florida....

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And, There is no such thing as an overpowered heli

First member of Member of Bearings Anonymous

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10-18-2004 07:17 PM  13 years agoPost 5
G-DAVE

rrVeteran

Tyne and Wear ,​England

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You miss the point of Scale Flying :-
The whole art is to fly the scale model in the manor and style of the real thing .
Dave

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10-18-2004 07:18 PM  13 years agoPost 6
Benthicrov

rrNovice

smithfield,va

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Whatever physics are involved it seems that some scale helicopter flyers would want to also scale the power plant to achieve scale performance in order to achieve a more realistic flying experience. I have never heard of this being done or mentioned with either helicopters or planes dispite reading heavily on the subject. It has never been mentioned on RR. If you are doing scale some people might want to scale the performance capability of the model to more closely resemble the real thing.

Thanks,

Jeff K

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10-18-2004 09:11 PM  13 years agoPost 7
Wa11banger

rrElite Veteran

Huntsville, Al

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I personally would prefer to have the extra power that a model provides.. If you want it to fly scale use less power... But if your heli goes to hel in a handbasket you have the power available to hopefully bail out... Flying scale can be achieved with proper pitch curves and throttle curves.. It does not have to be matched to a scale power:weight ratio.. If it were none of the stuff we "can" do with helis would be possible.
Just because it's there doesn't mean you have to dial it in when you are flying "Scale"

Just my .02
Rick

Proud member of the Quick UK, Duralite Flight Systems, V-Blade, & KBDD team

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10-18-2004 09:30 PM  13 years agoPost 8
Wisdom-Seeker

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Danville, CA

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Unless I missed reading it somewhere in this post, you've all missed the point. Aerodynamics do not scale. Whether your talking full-scale or 1/10th scale, the planes have to go a real (not scale) 50-60 MPH to fly. A 1/10th scale plane flies a scale 500 to 600 MPH. Similar limitations apply to helis. Notice that full-scale helis have rotor speeds of 200 to 300 RPM. You could not get a model heli to fly with that kind of head speed. The power plant has much the same things that prevent it from scaling.

--

Wisdom-Seeker
Protest letter to insurance co.: What do you mean "Act of God"?

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10-18-2004 09:33 PM  13 years agoPost 9
alanhsu

rrKey Veteran

Vancouver, Canada

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hmm...
why don't you just limit your throttle to the point where it flys like the real thing.

Problem solved.
NEXT!

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10-18-2004 11:25 PM  13 years agoPost 10
Peter WalesrrElite Veteran - Orlando Fl - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

What a lot of know nothing experts here!

This is my Nats Lama. It weighs in at 22kg and makes 8hp from the turbine motor

The full size, fully loaded weighs 2300kg max and makes 870hp

Yes, it has about the same power to weight ratio and flies very much like the full size.

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10-18-2004 11:40 PM  13 years agoPost 11
Wa11banger

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Huntsville, Al

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Know nothings... Thats pretty strong.. so your bird equates 1 out of how many.. The inputs placed here are just that inputs... Thanks for yours..

Now also that is what ratio 1/100th so your stating that your large turbine heli is exaclty 1/100 scale? The one you modeled it after must be frikin huge in real life.. and your blades, etc are exact scale replicas, so forth? ..

Even if it is exactly 1/100th scale I'm sure if that was achievable everywhere on every model my friends with bells and a Uh-1 would love to call you to find out your secret since they are both scale fanatics

Just my .02
Rick

Proud member of the Quick UK, Duralite Flight Systems, V-Blade, & KBDD team

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10-19-2004 01:39 AM  13 years agoPost 12
eric_b

rrKey Veteran

Denver, CO, USA

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Now also that is what ratio 1/100th so your stating that your large turbine heli is exaclty 1/100 scale?
Peter didn't say that. He was relating the power to weight ratio of his model to the full sized heli. Power to weight ratio has nothing to do with the model scale at all.

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10-19-2004 01:52 AM  13 years agoPost 13
Raptor50Flyer

rrApprentice

TN

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I have to agree... That was a very strong A**hole statement. Everyone here is just trying to help...


Ben

If it ain't broke, don't fix it !!!

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10-19-2004 01:56 AM  13 years agoPost 14
Imperio

rrApprentice

tecumseh okla 7487​ph405-598-6267

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Scale power to weight ratio

well it sure would be a dog in the power department and that would suck if the wind was blowing 5mph it would be to much for it

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10-19-2004 01:59 AM  13 years agoPost 15
Wa11banger

rrElite Veteran

Huntsville, Al

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sure it does.. it has everything to do with it.. What if this heli was a 30-50 sized and not a turbine.. Then what? I made reference to this weight to power ratio being correct in his model heli, but how many other sized or frames fall into this category? This is how it worked out for him... It however is not the standard. I have been with DrTim flying here So. Cal on several occasions and I can guarantee he can fly anything "scale like" no matter how much more power to weight the craft has.. Just because you have does not mean you have to use it.. I can give the sticks to DrTim on my way whacked out R50 and he can fly it around like his turbine cobra.. the only thing missing is the sweet smell of Jet-A and the finest whine of turbine.

The way a bird flies is directly relational to how you set it up.. I am sure that if Peter (which I am not doubting his scale knowledge) were to tighten up his curves could have that Lama flying quite "unscale" Fortunately that does nothing for him and puts such a fine model at risk.

Proud member of the Quick UK, Duralite Flight Systems, V-Blade, & KBDD team

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10-19-2004 04:10 AM  13 years agoPost 16
eric_b

rrKey Veteran

Denver, CO, USA

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I should add to my comment above, as it wasn't complete. "Power to weight ratio has nothing to do with the model scale at all"... If you're just comparing those two quantities alone, then the model size vs. the full scale will not make a difference, as it's just a ratio of the rated power versus mass (weight). But for the sake of comparing those ratios and then making assumptions on overall performance, there is quite a difference. What makes the difference is what level of performance a weight ratio will give, and is based upon many factors, such as rated horsepower vs. actual horsepower, scaled drag and lift coefficients, reynolds number, etc., and in the case of comparing Peter's Lama with a full size, there will be numerous differences of rotor blade dimensions and airfoil accuracy that will have a major affect on overall performance.

I think the bottom line is that most all model helicopters have much more overall power than any full-sized heli, and that coupled with a greater strength to weight ratio of the airframes and rotor systems give much stronger performance.

...except for a few of my first models, which didn't even have enough power to lift off, let alone hover!

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10-19-2004 04:19 AM  13 years agoPost 17
Wa11banger

rrElite Veteran

Huntsville, Al

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Hehe, I haven't come across that problem yet thankfully but I do have a get em in the air and keep em there problem

Proud member of the Quick UK, Duralite Flight Systems, V-Blade, & KBDD team

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10-19-2004 04:20 AM  13 years agoPost 18
alanhsu

rrKey Veteran

Vancouver, Canada

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I think Peter Wales is coming on a bit too strong.
I am sure he is very experienced.
But I think he could change his title so his post seemed less offensive and more helpful.

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10-19-2004 05:29 AM  13 years agoPost 19
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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full-size head speed

"Notice that full-scale helis have rotor speeds of 200 to 300 RPM"

I thought full size helis turn a head speed of 1200 ????


Jim

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10-19-2004 05:42 AM  13 years agoPost 20
Inspector Fuzz

rrKey Veteran

NLA

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Geez...

Man, what a dumb thread.. First, off, the model has a throttle for a reason.. It is yours' to chose how you fly it.. Second.. Those who can't fly do scale, so you will rarely ever see someone flying a scale model "rip it up" most of them couldn't do it if they wanted to.. That's why they fly scale.. FLAME SUIT BUTTONED AND ZIPPED!!!!!
JEFF

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HelicopterMain Discussion › scale the power plant
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