RunRyder RC
 4  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 1665 views
06-05-2004 06:45 PM  13 years agoPost 1
blakka_1

rrElite Veteran

London/Enfield

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

went out today with my rappy 50 and put my 401 gyro to the test. no matter how much i tried i couldnt get my 401 to track straight through fast backwards flight whether it be up right or inverted, my 401 will just not come out in a straight line. when coming out of backwards flight my 401 will either swing the tail a little to the left or a little to the right, it will never come out straight, my 401 will just not hold its position in fast backwards flight.

now that im flying harder the problem seems to be getting worse, this makes sense as im working the gyro harder pushing it to its limits.

my dad has a 601 on his rappy and it holds "ROCK" solid and locks into position through backwards flight and anything else i can throw at it.

problem is - i cant afford a 601, therefore i think it will have to be the csm 560micro.

i saw duncan osbourne fly the 560 at 3d masters, and i must admit i was very impressed with the gryo's performance.

csm sl560 here i come.

where is the cheapest place i can purchase a 560micro? i do not mind if i have to order from abroad.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
06-05-2004 06:55 PM  13 years agoPost 2
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hello

Curious what servo are you using? The 9253, though a very nice servo, is pretty low in the torque department and under heavy loads it may not have the umph to compensate even when the 401 is telling it the right things. Try another servo such as the new Futaba 9254 or an Airtronics 94758(besides if you get a 560 youll probably want to lookin into getting one of these servos anyways). Just yesterday I was doing huge tail slides with my Pred 90 and then entering backwards loops and the tail stayed right on line with my 401 with 94858.

Carlo

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-05-2004 06:59 PM  13 years agoPost 3
blakka_1

rrElite Veteran

London/Enfield

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

hi eco, yes im running the 9253 servo. the predator runs much larger tail blades than the th r50, therefore it will hold much better.

i am running 85mm nhp tail blades, before i change over to the 560 i will try some 92mm hirobo freya tail blades on my r50, if this solves my problem then i may stick with my 401.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2004 01:33 AM  13 years agoPost 4
Jason Cummings

rrVeteran

St. Louis

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I was having similar problems. I switched from a 9253 to an Airtronics 94758 and my tail will hold through anything now. Changing servos is deffinately a cheaper route than changing gyros.

Synergy Field Rep

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2004 03:14 AM  13 years agoPost 5
Conrod

rrVeteran

Mount Dora , Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

servos

Soo....can you use an 8700G with a 401?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2004 04:48 AM  13 years agoPost 6
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Jason,

I thought this ATX stuff was junque? 94758's rip the arm off Dracula.

Terry

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2004 11:20 PM  13 years agoPost 7
Jason Cummings

rrVeteran

St. Louis

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I never said that. Did I? I think most brands of radio are good stuff.
I don't know about ripping the arm off dracula, but it pulled the servo mount down the boom. had to add some lock nuts to keep it in place.

Synergy Field Rep

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2004 11:24 PM  13 years agoPost 8
Jason Cummings

rrVeteran

St. Louis

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You can use the 8700g with the 401 just not in digital servo mode

Synergy Field Rep

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2004 11:28 PM  13 years agoPost 9
Conrod

rrVeteran

Mount Dora , Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

8700

Ok...so...does that make it better or worse than the 9253? having to run in standard mode?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2004 11:54 PM  13 years agoPost 10
Jason Cummings

rrVeteran

St. Louis

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I haven't tried it, but I think there are better options

Synergy Field Rep

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-08-2004 12:22 AM  13 years agoPost 11
Conrod

rrVeteran

Mount Dora , Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Options

Yeah...I"m in the middle of the option$ technique.
Hopefully after my "last" part arrives, I'll be able to shed some light on my tail holding woes.
Right now..it's top secret !

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-08-2004 07:44 AM  13 years agoPost 12
Raptor Rulezzz

rrKey Veteran

Rockanje, Zuid-Holland - The Netherlands

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

i cant afford a 601, therefore i think it will have to be the csm 560micro.
I just ordered an GY601/9251 from helikraft for $285 (on sale NOW)

The 560 & 9254 was going to cost me something like $315 when bought from rcmarket.org

So what`s up with the 560 micro being cheaper

Seperatly without the servo it might seem cheaper... but when you have to go out and buy a decent servo to go with it, you might as well buy a GY601/9251 (and that one is PnP no need to tinker around )
now that im flying harder the problem seems to be getting worse, this makes sense as im working the gyro harder pushing it to its limits.
I can agree with that... that`s the reason that I`m upgrading to a 601 also (and I need the 401 for another helicopter!)

Cheers,

Rich

.



Proud Member of Team QuickUK, Team Duralite & Sponsored by V-blades & 4rc.nl

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-08-2004 06:35 PM  13 years agoPost 13
Rappy

rrApprentice

Belgium

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi Rich,

do you look at rchelistore? The combo GY401 with S9254 is just 209 Euro.
I use this combo on my raptor 90, performs very well, my gain is only set at 56%, its hold perfect in invert backwarts flying.
On my millenium i use one GY601 with S9251 servo, i always had a little drift from the tail, set the gyro up per manual, first normal mode and set it mechanaly, then set throw limit, than go in HH mode, the drift stays.

Regards

Chris

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
06-08-2004 10:34 PM  13 years agoPost 14
Raptor Rulezzz

rrKey Veteran

Rockanje, Zuid-Holland - The Netherlands

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

do you look at rchelistore?
Ofcourse Chris but I wanted a better gyro and the 601 is the better one we can agree... and the 601/9251 was only 237,5 euro(hard to beat)
I never read anything about drift of the 601 so maybe you got a dud or you`re setup isn`t right after all....

The 401 is going on my dads new gasser, along with a 9250 because I found out that my 9253 was dying on me tonight... it started piroing on it`s own on different occasions, this time it was very clear that it was the servo (and not me) so I flipped upright and landed right away

I just wanted to make a point by saying that the 560 micro isn`t that cheap.... it`s just as or more expensive than the 601/9251 combo if you need to buy a decent servo!

Cheers,

Rich



Proud Member of Team QuickUK, Team Duralite & Sponsored by V-blades & 4rc.nl

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-15-2004 02:13 AM  13 years agoPost 15
hpilotrc

rrVeteran

NY--->>Mooresville, NC USA 8/2005

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Overpriced CSM Micro 560

Maybe someday CSM will lower their prices so that we can try their Micro 560. If it is as good as they say it is maybe people will switch to the 560 and make the GY401 history!

Michael

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-15-2004 02:59 AM  13 years agoPost 16
Conrod

rrVeteran

Mount Dora , Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

micro

One thing is for sure...the csm micro definitely has a better pirouette rate...velocity and consistency as compared to the 401.
I have felt the difference.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-15-2004 06:48 AM  13 years agoPost 17
staraero1

rrKey Veteran

Atlantic City, New Jersey

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

There are a lot of people out there already running the CSM 560's, in place of the 401's and 601's. I am only one of them who has switched to the 560's.

Staraero1

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
06-15-2004 08:08 AM  13 years agoPost 18
Raptor Rulezzz

rrKey Veteran

Rockanje, Zuid-Holland - The Netherlands

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

There are a lot of people out there already running the CSM 560's
It does seem that way but I also heard a lot of people had problems.. with drift... and such... I almost ordered a 560 but when you read posts about problems and that you have to tinker around a lot to get it working up to spec, no thanks. Especially when the GY601/9251 is cheaper than the 560/9254. If the 560/9254 would have been cheaper, I might have tried it, but I really like PnP.

It all comes down to one thing eventually.... $$$$
(not to mension that the 601/9251 has been proven to be very reliable and easy to setup... and keeps on going even after a lot of use)

The day they make a 560/??? combo which is like $200... I`ll buy one


Cheers,

Rich



Proud Member of Team QuickUK, Team Duralite & Sponsored by V-blades & 4rc.nl

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-15-2004 09:44 AM  13 years agoPost 19
staraero1

rrKey Veteran

Atlantic City, New Jersey

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

There are a lot of people having trouble with 401's and 601's as well. Most gyro trouble can usually be attributed to the setup, for the most part. Funny thing about Futaba vs CSM. If you look at the forums, loads of Futabas are drifting and not holding. Most people excuse them as a setup problem. If the user does not solve their trouble with the Futaba units, seems to be no big deal. They send the unit in, pay Futaba a big price, and start over. In many instances this is what happens.

When CSM gyros have problems drifting and not holding, from a setup issue like the Futaba, it is always blamed on the gyro. Just in the last couple of days there are plenty of Futabas posted here not holding and drifting. So as far as plug and play, Futaba gyros are far from this when setup incorrectly as well. But they are always excused when they start going goofy. I suppose it is simply the name that allows this to happen.

In defense of the CSM products, they had the first heading hold systems that worked well. However during this time many people who bought a gyro, like the CSM 540, really had no idea how to set it up correctly. And CSM never did a good job making people understand the heading hold systems they were selling either. Most people bought a gyro like the CSM 540, used trim to stop it from drifting, and the thing would never work right from that point forward. Again purely because of setup trouble. Then to make matters worse for CSM, they also tried to leave the standard servo option on their units. They actually encourged people to use a standard servo to start with. A very bad business move for them. They now had a good gyro system running a crappy servo. Even though a standard servo worked, it did not work very well, compared to a decent digital high speed servo running with a CSM gyro.

The 401 is a good center hold gyro, and many were shown by Futaba dealers how to use it correctly from the start. Futaba also knew the servo issue was a problem. In many instances they included the 9253 with their 401, right from the start. No rocket science here, it had to work better then most other gyros running standard servos, including the CSM 540. However, with that said, when you pull the 401 off it's center hold going backwards fast, it wips out of center hold going around a turn petty fast. The 601 does much better in this department. The CSM 560 is a decent gyro. And it is also completely lineor coming in and out of center holding, going backwards fast around turns. Like the 601 is, but without a dedicated servo. A good fast digital is all the 560 needs to do a great job on the tail rotor of a helicopter.

In the end, it just depends what equipment you like, and what you have been told to buy and use by others. The 401 was one of the first heading hold gyro systems that held well, when running a good servo with it. It had to be setup correctly, or it did not do well through out it's entire range. Many people ran 401's simply because of the Futaba name. And they were shown how to set up the 401-9253 package correctly from the start. When running a good servo like the 9253 right from the start, even marginal holding looked good, when compared to everything else that was out there at the time, and running just a standard servo with it.

There is other equipment out there now which isas good, or in some cases even better then much of the JR and Futaba stuff is now. These big MFG's have momentum which is a big advantage. However, other MFG's now have access to good MFG. tech., this lets them compete with a Jr and Futaba type company. Futaba is so big, they can't update much of their equipment quickly any longer. At least not until they dump all the exisiting extra stock they have MFG'd for the market first. The Throttle Jockey governor system is a good example of my point here. The T.J. is twice the governor the GV is, and at half the price. Model Avionics supported it correctly from the start, and it took Futabas exclusive governor market by storm.

Anyway, many small companies like CSM and Model Avionics are starting to compete with the JRs and Futaba's head on. This is happening simply because their equipment is newer tech. and in a lot of cases it is simply a better product. Much of it is the same price, or even less too. Considering the nature of what we do, and the price of this equipment today, warranty performance has become a big issue. It is a genuine concern for many now. The smaller companies like CSM for certain do a better job across the board, in the warranty end of things. This issue appeals to many of their equipment users, and is a big help if a problem occurs. The smaller companies also help users out, unlike the big guys, even if the equipment has been crashed damaged.

This is what I see happening. I like the CSM gyroequipment. I have ditched all my Futaba gyros in favor of the CSM units. We will see what the near future brings in the way of equipment MFG's, and the sales numbers of equipment in general. Most of these MFG's know they need to make their equipment cheaper and better then what the big guys make. Most are adopting this route today. Nothing is forever. Not CSM, JR or Futaba. Incedently, the 601 is almost a 400. dollar gyro system. It is a very good system but 400. is way out of line. The CSM is a good gyro, but 200. is way out of line. As time goes on, I think all these MFG's will be forced to get much of this stuff priced fairly.

Staraero1

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
06-15-2004 10:59 AM  13 years agoPost 20
Raptor Rulezzz

rrKey Veteran

Rockanje, Zuid-Holland - The Netherlands

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

the 601 is almost a 400. dollar gyro system
neh it isn`t.. mine was $285 from helikraft ( 2 years ago it was $900 when bought in a dutch shop )

But I do agree that setup is important and that`s where most problems find there origin, you do sound like you`re a CSM field rep though... like you get you`re gyro`s for free.... not that there`s anything wrong with defending a product when you like it, it just appears that way. (No offense... just saying what I think when I`m reading one of you`re posts about CSM gyro`s)

I know the 560 is good (so it should be for $200) and the 601 is also good... it`s just a matter of personal preference but I do think that more peepz are having problems with CSM gyro`s than with 601... I think that by scrolling the BB

I think it`s very very good that there`s more competition.... in the end it means better products for less money So good for us~!!!

Cheers,

Richard



Proud Member of Team QuickUK, Team Duralite & Sponsored by V-blades & 4rc.nl

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 1665 views
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 4  Topic Subscribe

Wednesday, December 13 - 10:44 pm - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online