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HelicopterAerobatic 3D Contest › How to make a perfect roll?
06-05-2004 04:12 PM  13 years agoPost 1
flyingcowra

rrNovice

Belgium

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Hi fellows,

When I perform a roll I'm losing all speed. When I start with some good forward speed the roll is OK but after one roll the forward speed is gone and it's impossible to make a second decent one. Anyone who can help me keep rolling?

PS: my next phase will be a rolling circle. All tips are welcome.

Regards,

Jan

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06-05-2004 04:22 PM  13 years agoPost 2
PAustin

rrApprentice

Des Moines, IA

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Coordinate your elevator while rolling. When you go inverted, pull back a small amount. When you go upright again, push forward. This will keep you moving.

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06-05-2004 05:32 PM  13 years agoPost 3
Hotwings

rrKey Veteran

Florida, West Palm Beach.

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you probably fly planks, if you give the heli forward cyclic during the roll the heli will stop and then start flying backwards. when you are in forward flight and start the roll don't change the cyclic just the pitch. try it you'll likeit, i did the same thing when i started. c-ya ron

Please cancel my clearance, I have the field in sight. Got my RW Turbine Waiver, need lottery!

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06-06-2004 01:45 AM  13 years agoPost 4
PAustin

rrApprentice

Des Moines, IA

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No, I don't fly planks.... However, if the heli starts to slow in forward flight during rolls. You can use elevator to compensate and continue flying forward. The same way you can do backwards rolls.

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06-06-2004 02:30 AM  13 years agoPost 5
Hotwings

rrKey Veteran

Florida, West Palm Beach.

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sorry paustin

wasn't referring to you, i meant that flyingcowra was used to planks, you are correct but when first learning it helps to use as little of anything as possible. my first rolls always ended up in reverse. c-ya ron

Please cancel my clearance, I have the field in sight. Got my RW Turbine Waiver, need lottery!

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06-06-2004 07:00 AM  13 years agoPost 6
Malorie

rrElite Veteran

Paw squared, MI

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phasing or swashplate timing are also important. If your phasing is off, you need to fly the elevator a lot to keep moving forward.

The other thing to watch out for is shifting the tail around as you change collective and the position of the tail as you begin rolling. This can cause varied results.

Best of luck, keep practicing,
Malorie

Life's a journey, NOT a destination.

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06-06-2004 09:01 AM  13 years agoPost 7
flyingcowra

rrNovice

Belgium

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Ron,

Impossible to hide that I was flying airplanes but I will change my life..
In one way it helped me flying all forward flights (tail and nose hovering) in a split second because I always used a lot my rudder when I was flying patterns but the reversed flights are really difficult. Now after 4 months of flying (+/- 100 flights) it's heading the right direction (nose in, inverted fight/hovering, loops, rolls??? flips, death spiral) It pleases me so much that got really the VIRUS. Went to Germany last WE and saw Robert Sixt flying his Three Dee NT and it was mindblowing. Powerful and silent on the music of DJ Ross's Emotion. Also another 14 years old boy was flying his Three Dee like it was so easy. Same performance during the nightfly sessoin. It was very, very breathtaking and very motivating!!!!

So back to the point.

What you and Malorie are suggesting is, if I understood this correctly, starting in FF flight you begin to roll. You decrease pitch till the heli is at 1/4 roll. The pitch should be here neutral. You roll further 1/4 roll and you increase neg pitch till you reached inverted flight. Another 1/4 roll decreasing negative pitch till reach neutral (you are now at 3/4 of your roll) and so on for the last 1/4 roll.

Is this description correct? I noticed when you enter your roll with not maximum pitch it is much cleaner.

Thanks guys for your help,

Jan

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06-06-2004 09:51 AM  13 years agoPost 8
Augusto

rrElite Veteran

US

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For a helicopter to advance forward the main rotor disc MUST be tilted forward a little bit. This forward tilt will provide a component of trust in the forward direction to make it move forward (equivalent ot what a prop does in an airplane) and another component in the vertical direction to keep the heli from falling (equivalent to what the wings do on an airplane).

The same concept applies to any traveling maneuver such as rolling. Most people make the mistake of gaining speed then leveling the main rotor flat and then rolling. It is imposible for the heli to continue keeping the forward speed if there is nothing pulling it in that direction. This would be similar to leveling an airplane and then going to idle before rolling.

To make rolls or any other traveling maneuver you need to keep a certain amount of main rotor disc tilt towards the traveling direction that provides forward trust. Try starting your roll while the main rotor disc is tilted instead of flat and you'll see how much better it will go.

Augusto.

Avant Aurora Ultimate

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06-06-2004 05:22 PM  13 years agoPost 9
PAustin

rrApprentice

Des Moines, IA

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Bravo Augusto. Although this is exactly what I meant by my post, I did not convey it as so eloquently as you just did.


Paul Austin

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06-06-2004 10:29 PM  13 years agoPost 10
flyingcowra

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Belgium

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Thanks Augusto for your excellent reply. Will practice this tomorrow.

Jan

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HelicopterAerobatic 3D Contest › How to make a perfect roll?
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