RunRyder RC
 7  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 2401 views
Helicopter
e-
Elec-Helicopters New or Limited Activity
MS Composit › Tail wag, running out of ideas to solve it.
06-05-2004 03:35 AM  13 years agoPost 1
yapjy

rrKey Veteran

Singapore

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi,
My H2 is equipped with:
JR PCM10X
Phonex 10 ESC
Hacker 20-22S
HS55 for CCPm control
GY401 with HS50 on the tail fin.

I have done the following in an attempt to solve the tail wag:
1) CA the pinion gear and tail gear to the shaft. No slipping now.
2) File off a tiny portion of the top of the main gear so that it meshes better with the pinion gear.
3) Grease the screws at the tail blade holder.

And.....I'm still having that wagging!!!!

It doesn't wag if I remove the main blades, so more or less, a defective gyro is not possible. The tail blades doesn't induce vibration either?

The wagging only comes in when the H2 is lifting off. Otherwise the tail remains still when spooling up.

Any other things that I can try ???

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-05-2004 03:47 AM  13 years agoPost 2
parrott

rrNovice

Morehead City NC

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Just for the heck of it, try unplugging the single yellow wire from the receiver and turn the delay down to about 30 and see what it does. This is the wire for adjusting the sensitivity from the transmitter. If that works then you have to adjust the gyro from your transmitter with the wire plugged in.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
06-05-2004 04:31 AM  13 years agoPost 3
Modefo's Heli's

rrApprentice

Littlerock CA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Check the pitch on the main blades

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
06-05-2004 04:45 AM  13 years agoPost 4
helicopter34

rrVeteran

New Jersey, exit 82

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Stiff

Is your rotor head stiff? I mean if you hold the main gear still, is there rigidity in the flybar and the blade grips. I had something similar happen to me, i think the flybar was occillating. Also try tightening your main blades and tighten all the set screws in the collective pitch pivot (this piece )
A rigid tight head helps.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-05-2004 08:10 AM  13 years agoPost 5
helicopter34

rrVeteran

New Jersey, exit 82

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Tip

-I don't know if you already did this, but make sure the your tail servo has maximum linearity when it is maintaining hover.
Or in other words, make sure that when the servo horn is 90 to linkage when your tail is holding (reasonably well) in a hover. To do this, switch to non-heading hold mode and center your trim and remove the servo horn and put it back on so that it is perpendicular to the linkage when no rudder input is added. Then bring it into a hover and notice if you have to add any rudder to maintain heading in a hover. Note what direction that input caused the linkage to move and shorten or lengthen your linkage (its a good idea to have easily adjustable tail linkage) in that direction. Repeat this process until your heli holds its heading when hovering without adding any rudder input. Now you have the greatest sensativity in your tail linkage/servo when you are in hover.

-What servo horn hole are you using. I don't know what the "standard" hole is to use, but I use the furthest or second furthest hole in on the horn (better linear resolution). Yes, this will decrease the speed of your tail response, but it decreases error from slop in the servo and the lowering of speed might help your tail from overshooting its desired position, which is causing your wagging.

-Hows your blade tracking? Do they ride perfectly in one plane? Any vibrations without the tail?

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-05-2004 02:47 PM  13 years agoPost 6
rdalcanto

rrKey Veteran

Salt Lake City, UT

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I didn't see any mention of what your gyro gain is? The 401 usually likes a low gain setting which still holds very well for 3D.

Rick

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-05-2004 02:53 PM  13 years agoPost 7
tele3030

rrApprentice

Singapore

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

try reading this post fo mine

it may help

http://www.daddyhobby.com/forum/sho...s=&threadid=645

its more a a work around but it worked for me.
simply moving the position of the gyro did the trick

cheers doug

http://www.daddyhobby.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=645

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-05-2004 04:09 PM  13 years agoPost 8
Fit

rrApprentice

Temasek

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I've noticed that my GY401 picks up interference from both the motor and ESC very easily. It will wag only at certain throttle level. I traced it down to the ESC and motor. I removed the motor, and moved it close to the gyro while working the throttle. Lo and behold, the gyro picks up the interference and passed it down to the tail servo making it glitch even though the gyro is not moving at all. And it occurs only at certain rpm.

It picks up interference even when the motor is up to 3-4 cm away from the gyro. Also, ditch the thick foam tape they provide and use a 3M double sided tape and mount the gyro and solidly to the frame as possible. I improved my gyro gain that way.

Rdalcanto is right, with the 401 20% to 30% actual gain is the norm.
So with your non futaba radio your channel 5 ATV should be around 65%.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-05-2004 07:45 PM  13 years agoPost 9
Gary Jenkins

rrElite Veteran

Nowhere, US

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Move the ESC as far from the gyro and receiver as you can. When you removed the main blades the gyro worked fine because you reduced the current flow through the ESC and motor a lot. This reduced the EMI at the gyro.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-06-2004 02:29 AM  13 years agoPost 10
yapjy

rrKey Veteran

Singapore

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thanks, I will try the advice given.

I'm using 65% gyro gain on my GY401. The tx is a JR 10X.

Meanwhile, I replace the pinion gear E118 with a new one. The wagging has worn out a few teeth.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-06-2004 05:07 AM  13 years agoPost 11
yapjy

rrKey Veteran

Singapore

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Oh yes, another point, the wagging comes with a "zin zin" sound.

What could be the cause of the sound?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2004 04:27 PM  13 years agoPost 12
yapjy

rrKey Veteran

Singapore

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

solved !

The wagging has gone

The LHS guy suggest that I use the GEAR channel to control the gyro gain instead of Aux 3. I believe the ATV curve for the GEAR channel is different from that of AUX 3.

With the change, I can notice the tail sensitivity to wagging decrease dramatically. A few quick tuning to the gyro gain and I get a solid tail.

Now I'm running 28% gain in Heading Hold mode on the GY401.

Thanks to everyone that helps.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-08-2004 12:41 AM  13 years agoPost 13
helicopter34

rrVeteran

New Jersey, exit 82

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Man

Man we were all way off from the problem.

Make it idiot-proof, and someone will make a better idiot

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-08-2004 03:05 AM  13 years agoPost 14
parrott

rrNovice

Morehead City NC

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I did say to disconnect the gain control wire and try it. This happened to me. Mine would wag violently with it plugged in until I turned the sensitivity down on the gear channel. Anything above 50% is HH and below is NonHH. This is done on the transmitter.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
07-17-2004 04:00 PM  13 years agoPost 15
Drunk Monk

rrProfessor

Preston, UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Anything above 50% is HH and below is NonHH. This is done on the transmitter.
Not on a JR transmitter and he has a JR PCM10X


Stephen

I only open my mouth to change feet.....

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-18-2004 04:17 AM  13 years agoPost 16
tele3030

rrApprentice

Singapore

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

would using a slower servo work ..everyone is using a fast servo would using a slower gyro help reduce the over compensation that we are getting with the tail wag ..I have hear cases that is is working for them.

just a thought.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-18-2004 10:33 AM  13 years agoPost 17
Drunk Monk

rrProfessor

Preston, UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Using a slower gyro won't do you any favours. Probably better to move the link in a hole on the servo arm, that would slow down the servo movement anyway.


Stephen

I only open my mouth to change feet.....

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-18-2004 11:42 AM  13 years agoPost 18
birdmanheli

rrNovice

Adelaide, South Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Glad to see you not the only one. Just for the record, be also sure the brass pitch slider sleeve has no "swarf" inside and also pays slightly remove the square edges of the 2mm holes. Always test the sliding action by moving the pitch lever by hand (disconect from the servo first) should be totally free of any binding, especially when using a quality gyro.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-18-2004 03:47 PM  13 years agoPost 19
yapjy

rrKey Veteran

Singapore

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Tail wagging revisit

I have begun outdoor flying and the wagging comes back when there is wind.

I believe the gyro is over compensating the movement. I am moving the link rod into the nearest hole from the centre of the servo horn.

Let's see if this helps.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-02-2004 07:57 PM  13 years agoPost 20
OT45

rrApprentice

Kingston, NY

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Tail Wag

yapjy,

Have you solved your tail wag? I have been struggeling with my H2 what feels like forever but have finally made the tail work. No more wag for me thanks to someone's earlier post that I can't find. I glued the threaded rods into the tail grips, and greased the metal hub. Now there is less binding under load since it's metal against metal. I had to tap out the hub with the appropriate tap to get all the threadlocker removed and the threads restored. Make sure to clean the blade holders and rods with alcohol to clean out any grease before glueing the threaded rods in place. You don't want them to come out!! I'm just now a happy Hornet owner!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 2401 views
Helicopter
e-
Elec-Helicopters New or Limited Activity
MS Composit › Tail wag, running out of ideas to solve it.
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 7  Topic Subscribe

Wednesday, December 13 - 3:00 pm - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online