RunRyder RC
 5  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 1 page 1472 views
HelicopterMain Discussion › WHY Why why?..
06-03-2004 06:44 PM  13 years agoPost 1
iskoos

rrKey Veteran

Orlando, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I want to know how many of you guys fly like a 3D master on a simulator and can't go any further than a simple figure 8 at the field.
I am not even % of what I know when playing simulator, I turned the wind on like a hurricane do every possible thing to make it more difficult but it is no use; it is a whole different thing when you get to field.

Why is simulator and field so different?

Yes we don't have space bar key on our transmitter to bring a new heli in one second so $$$ is a big factor but it is not ALL.
Whatever I did, couldn't get my cyber heli close to my r/c one.

I have older version RealFlight Deluxe but tried G2 and it is absolutely no different other than a couple of new features.

So what does it take to fly the same heli on computer?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-03-2004 07:22 PM  13 years agoPost 2
livezrrApprentice - Colchester UK - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

1st get a decent sim

There is now only one, chuck the rest in the bin.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-03-2004 07:30 PM  13 years agoPost 3
Chavalo

rrApprentice

Mexico City

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Exactly the same thing happens to me and I know exactly why: $$$$

I can do everything (basic 3D) in the sim and with the real thing, your balls fall off!!! The only reason I think of is $$$$ because my hands tremble when flying and with the sim you can almost fly with your eyes closed!

What has been helping me is to have LONG periods of time flying within a day....try to burn one whole gallon of fuel everytime you hit the field, by the time you're almost out of fuel, your balls are almost reattached...this has helped me a lot!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-03-2004 08:00 PM  13 years agoPost 4
I3DM

rrProfessor

Israel

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ballz and practice !

www.liorzahavi.com

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-03-2004 08:03 PM  13 years agoPost 5
archangel

rrApprentice

Pasadena, CA - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Seneca, I agree!

The only reason my Raptor seems to fly as well as my Vigors is: FEAR... pure and simple.

I couldn't care less about crashing the Raptor, so I fly it well. I really look like I know what I am doing with it blazing around the sky.

The Vigors are another story. I fly them much more cautiously. Much more $$$.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-03-2004 08:17 PM  13 years agoPost 6
Johnny Walker

rrApprentice

Oxford England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

practice stuff on the sim that you are willing to attempt at the field, its no good being a jedi on the sim if you only hover the real thing. I try and stay 2-3 steps ahead on the sim and this works for me, ok I have totaled my Raptor a couple of times but thats not bad going, try and stucture your sim sessions and when on the sim treat as the real thing, that way you wont fool about and learn nothing.
You also like other people said is to have some balls and go for it, if you crash you crash, otherwise you will never progress further.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
06-03-2004 08:20 PM  13 years agoPost 7
breedatrad

rrApprentice

NW PA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yeah, Ballz are a big part of it but the sims I've flown (AFP, G2 and CSM V10) are "too perfect". You don't need near the corrections during maneuvers that you do with the real thing. I flew AFP all winter and learned a bunch of new stuff but, the first time I tried the same maneuvers with my Freya, and had to make "un-planned" corrections to keep it straight, I got lost! For example:

1. Consecutive, forward flips on the sim require only elevator and collective inputs to master. In the REAL WORLD, you end up adding some aileron and occasional TR inputs to keep it straight and in one place. The collective TIMING is also different between the two as blade lift changes due to wind, machine movement and (the big one) inertia.
2. Backwards inverted flight requires some left aileron input to keep it level when you first start moving... the sim doesn't!

Spend a couple of hours making sure your sim flies EXACTLY like your real machine (or, as close as you can get it). Change the weight, blade length, flybar response... whatever it takes to make them both feel the same when you're through.
And what you end up with on the sim may not necessarily match the real thing (disk dia, heli weight, etc.) but that's not important. It's got to FEEL the same.

Looks like you've got some work ahead of you now!

Brian

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-03-2004 08:28 PM  13 years agoPost 8
iskoos

rrKey Veteran

Orlando, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

livez

What is that sim? Hobbico Reflex?
If so what version? Looks really cool but is it going to feel like a real r/c heli?

Burning a gallon eact time hit the field will for sure help but that's not easy either.
Well what's easy actually?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-03-2004 08:28 PM  13 years agoPost 9
duraace9sp

rrApprentice

los angeles area

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

sims are positive as well

as for me---first gallon of fuel ever in any form of RC aircraft---- i was hovering/forward flight/figure 8's/and nose inhover and landings. couldnt have been as succesful w/o the sim first....a lot!!!

now the learing slows......and probably the sim helps less----but if i can go fly---i can find a few minutes to run the sim....

so for me ...i think it was good!

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
06-03-2004 08:35 PM  13 years agoPost 10
eSmith

rrVeteran

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Well, I'll try not to use Balls as my explination seeing how those details have already been covered.

Sure, we can all fly the sim like we're JK. but seriously, how often do you still crash? We have a way of forgetting how many times we hit the space bar and would be suprised at how often you really do crash the sim and just forget about it because it has no consequences.

If everytime you crashed your sim you were denied a day of posting here on RR the messages would dry up in a second. This place would be a ghost town.

Now, what is different about the sim compaired to the field? Well let's start with simple things like the neck strain you get because you didn't practice with your monitor hanging from your ceiling, instead your monitor never moved and your posture was comfortable. At the field you are not in your comfortable position. Not to mention that your monitor wasn't swinging left and right, towards and away so now not only are you straining to look up but your twisting your neck back and forth, take off a few comfort points for that.
Now, again a simple thing but how many of us crank up the computer speakers to a level compairable to a real RC heli? Again, if it's louder, your less comfortable, very small but it all adds up.

One of the largest strength of the sim is it's ability to help with orientation issues but just try and fly behind yourself without spinning around to face the heli. I fly from the flight line out but in the hovering stages we would practice in a box and would stand in the center and hover over all four corners without changing the direction you were facing. learning to be comfortable with the heli in any oriention while always facing it is one thing, try to to it while facing away looking back over your shoulder.

We sit maybe a foot and a half, two feet from out monitors and get used to this distance from the heli, when you start to pull figure 8's and want to make the turns towards yourself instead of away we tend to get a little intimidated by the rotor, this is because the perception of how close you are to the heli in the sim is skewed and no proportional to real life therefore we tend to think the turns should be made far closer to ourselves than is practicle for safety reasons. So in this case, if you can't get it, try moving it out further and up a bit and try again.

Of course the money factor is an issue, lot's of things are..... only one solution..... BURN FUEL.


-eSmith.

http://www.edmheli.ca

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-03-2004 08:36 PM  13 years agoPost 11
alawel

rrVeteran

Springfield Oregon

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Attitude (AKA balls)

I heard a world class heli pilot say,

"the less I care the less I crash"


I guess at the end of the day it all comes down to money and repair time that keeps people from treating the real thing like a sim.

Alan

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-03-2004 08:40 PM  13 years agoPost 12
iskoos

rrKey Veteran

Orlando, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

breedatrad

forward flips on the sim require only elevator and collective inputs to master. In the REAL WORLD, you end up adding some aileron and occasional TR inputs to keep it straight and in one place
Yeap, that's exactly what happens to me. In the sim. whenever you try it, you end up the same way. In the real world, each time you get different reaction.
That's what simulators can't do. I call it "RANDOM EFFECT". They claim they have it but NO they DON'T.
If they can get this random effect incroporated in their computer sims, it will look much better.

To match sim. heli as close possible as to real one is the ONE and the ONLY problem I am having. If I can get that done, I will be ok. Unfortunately it is not as easy as playing with the sim. settings

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-03-2004 08:57 PM  13 years agoPost 13
iskoos

rrKey Veteran

Orlando, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

eSmith

Thansk for the good input and the time you spent typing it.
Those little things you pointed out are really important.
I think everybody should read that post.

Although I criticise simulators, there is one thing that I have to admit; Like some of us mentioned above they are really useful to learn the orientation. No matter how cheap or simple they are(some of them) the inputs are always the same. I learned nose in through sims. and without them there was no way I could ever master it.

Whatever they are, this hobby would be lot difficult without them.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-03-2004 09:16 PM  13 years agoPost 14
livez

rrApprentice

Colchester UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

iskoos

Yes it's Reflex XTR.

Give £100 to charity everytime you crash
and you won't know the difference

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-03-2004 09:30 PM  13 years agoPost 15
archangel

rrApprentice

Pasadena, CA - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ok, I got it.

Everybody take your monitors apart. Grab the front part (the plastic frame around the screen) and place it on your window. Fly your heli outside looking through the frame!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-03-2004 09:47 PM  13 years agoPost 16
archangel

rrApprentice

Pasadena, CA - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Nice

Good thinking!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-04-2004 06:59 AM  13 years agoPost 17
Fullagas

rrKey Veteran

Michigan

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

.
Why is simulator and field so different?
Attitude - yours when on the sim. You know deep down inside you can fix it all with a keystroke. When on the sim, if you crash, stop flying for a week. Take at least $100 and give it to your spouse, GF, LHS... Or,...

Try doing 90% of your flying at the field, 10% at the sim. This is one of them times when the sim isn't helpin'.



.

Flying helis since gyros had springs.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-04-2004 05:31 PM  13 years agoPost 18
Vernon Barrett

rrNovice

Kansas City MO

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Achieving success with a sim?

I think the error people make with sim's is that they treat them like sim's. The common mind set is that I can afford to crash. I believe that my success with a sim has come because I treat it has if I were flying my machine. My heart races when I have a near crash because I know it's going to cost. Every new move I try I try to approach it with care so I don't crash.All to often we all hear pilots complain about the disconnect they have between the sim and flying their machine. Pilots fail to attach the emotional response they have when flying at the field to the sim. Learning to manage your emotional response is just as important as learening the stick moves.They are called sim's for a reason. They are suppose to stimulate the same responses from you as if you were flying your own machine. If you omit the emotional ques then your shorting yourself from a complete simulation. Big Balls in my book is a pilot who has learned to manage his or her emotional responses to a point where they don't interfere with their ability to fly at extremes or during emergencies. If you haven't had success in the past with sim's then I think that this coupling approach may solve the pucker factor at the field.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-04-2004 05:58 PM  13 years agoPost 19
RappyTappy

rrProfessor

North Denver, Colorado

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Most people that have the ability to drive a real car has the aptitude to fly R/C helis. Their are two kinds of pilots 3D pilots and precision 3D pilots, thats what really separates the men from the boys, one that could put piro flips or any other manuever where they want it, whenever they want it.
think the error people make with sim's is that they treat them like sim's. The common mind set is that I can afford to crash.
Thats the best answer about the sim thing, right on Vernon. Listen to him guys, he's a freakin' awesome pilot and he knows his stuff.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-04-2004 06:39 PM  13 years agoPost 20
Chavalo

rrApprentice

Mexico City

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

So in the end, the answer to this thread between sims and real flight is: $$$$$$$$....In mi opinion this is right, you need big balls to risk 1K while flying!

Imagine going to the dealers and pulling out your brand new $50,000 M3...I'll bet you'll drive home with a smile on your face and your balls as earings....same thing happens with helis!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 1 page 1472 views
HelicopterMain Discussion › WHY Why why?..
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 5  Topic Subscribe

Tuesday, December 12 - 8:09 pm - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online