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› Power: Comparing micros to nitros: Interesting
06-02-2004 04:28 PM  13 years agoPost 1
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rrElite Veteran

Galveston, Texas

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Hey guys I was killing some time and started looking up formulas to try to compare brushless micro heli power to larger nitro helis. It is pretty interesting what I have come up with.

746 watts = 1 horsepower

so 110 watt (himax 2015-4100) = 110 / 746 = .147 hp

.147hp : 375g (CP hummer)

454g / 1oz = 28.375 g / oz

375g hummer / 28.375 = 13.2 oz heli @ .147 hp = .01113 hp / oz.

10 lb Predator 60 (w/painted canopy) 160 oz @ 1.8hp (YS 61st2) = .01125 hp / oz

So brushless 2015-4100 pretty much equals the performance of a Predator 60/70

Now lets talk over-kill:

Himax 2025-5300 has 180 watts = .241 hp, adds ~19g of weight

~394g CP Hummer 2025 = 13.88 oz, so this heli would have a power : wt ratio of 0.0174 hp / oz. this should definitely be in the ball park of a 90size heli power to wt ratio. This would be a monster. Keep in mind the next size speed controller (Phoenix 25) would add a couple of grams. But all in all, This thing out-climbing a 30 size heli is an understatement.

If I had the hp numbers of the C-spec OS 90, I could give you an exact round about figure of its true power to weight ratio.

Predator, Raptor 30, TRex CCPM 450TH, 3D Pro 400F

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06-02-2004 05:28 PM  13 years agoPost 2
pbmax

rrKey Veteran

Olympia, WA - USA

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Yeah, but it's not any easier to hover in wind, even with all that power

And what's the use of it if the heli gets so small you can't see it?? Sure you could out-climb a 30-sized heli, but you'd be hard-pressed to keep orientation 100yards out

Pocket Rockets!

pbmax

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06-02-2004 05:30 PM  13 years agoPost 3
Doug

rrElite Veteran

Port Saint Luice Florida....

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I guess your electric's are 100% efficient

First member of Member of Bearings Anonymous

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06-02-2004 05:30 PM  13 years agoPost 4
Ben-T-Spindle

rrProfessor

Central Illinois

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Typical system efficiency for a Hummer with a Himax is about 70% (according to KC’s spreadsheet). So the power out is only 70% of what you are taking out of the battery.

The actual HP would be .147 * .7 = .1029

I will give you the pleasure of doing the math!

... BTS

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06-02-2004 06:13 PM  13 years agoPost 5
the collective

rrKey Veteran

Bayside, NY, U.S.A

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Don't forget to look at disc loading... one of the reasons the 90 size machines fly so well is that big disk...

I'd do the math myself, but I killed those brain cells off years ago.

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06-02-2004 06:46 PM  13 years agoPost 6
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rrElite Veteran

Galveston, Texas

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I appreciate the discussion. I knew that it would spark debate. I never said this micro heli flew as well as a 90, or would sustain the power ratings for long periods on time. This just states potential, but you do know that nitros' power are dependent on several factors as well, eg. the pilots ability to tune, fuel, altitude, as its efficiency.

What actually gave me the idea was that Lift sent me a link to where a guy was 3Ding the mess out of a CP Picollo, only after he asked me about the climb outs and if this heli could out-climb a 30 size heli.

The video of that guy 3Ding the Picollo looked as if could d@mn near out perform a 90 size heli, and that my friends, prompted the initial search for answers/comparisons. I never stated that these results were all inclusive, there are just starting points. One person mentioned having a drag race between the CP Hummer, and the Pmax. Hey bring it on. I hope it happens, and whoever does so, be sure to have somebody film it and post it on RR

Here is that link of that guy 3Ding the crap out of his Picollo: All of that disc loading, efficiency stuff. Fix it, run longer CF blades, get a more efficient motor. We all know Himax is not the most efficient, compared to its counterparts, but #ell it is cheap and obtainable to the "Po" man like myself. Plus its power data was readily available.

To all of the Nay Sayers, you can argue theory and calculations all day, but what it all boils down to is how the visually performs: Click the link of the video .wmv file at the top of this links page. And compare it to the 90. Performance wise, it looks D@mn similar to me:

Now before one of the experts say it, I know it is not the CP Hummer, and he is not running the Himax 2025, but what if it was. Go figure, enjoy, and have some vision

CLink the video called: xpro.wmv at the top left of the page and you'll see a nice display of Micro action
http://www.microheli.net/Specials/xpro/xpro_en.htm

.

Predator, Raptor 30, TRex CCPM 450TH, 3D Pro 400F

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06-02-2004 08:41 PM  13 years agoPost 7
Chem Geek

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AL

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Makes me think of cars vs. motorcycles. Motorcycles easily have better power to weight ratios, but if you've ever ridden in a blown big block muscle car, you know a sport bike doesn't really compare. Of course I guess that's more torque vs. horsepower.....

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06-02-2004 09:09 PM  13 years agoPost 8
pbmax

rrKey Veteran

Olympia, WA - USA

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I watched a video of a 1000hp twin-turbo Dodge Viper beat a stock Suzuki Hayabusa in a straight line race (but not by much). I then watched a heavily modified Hayabusa toy with the same viper before he completely dusted it A good sport bike is really hard to beat! Blown musclecar or what have you.

So on that note, the HB still rox!

pbmax

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06-02-2004 10:21 PM  13 years agoPost 9
zoom

rrElite Veteran

Galveston, Texas

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Hey Physics_nut,

Where have you been hiding? Its been a while since I have seen you a one my posts. I think it was the Black Hawk heli discussion. Its good see more folks hanging out with the micro heli world.

Predator, Raptor 30, TRex CCPM 450TH, 3D Pro 400F

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06-03-2004 06:52 AM  13 years agoPost 10
Chem Geek

rrVeteran

AL

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School, it literally sucked my life away this semester. I was doing 26 credit hours...at an honors college. Wasn't the best decision I've made, but it's over with now. It's time to get to heli's! My current project is to put an electric tail on the hornet, and find the funding for a larger heli....haven't decided between like Logo10 or glow.

Oh and I wasn't saying a sport bike couldn't spank even a very heavily modified muscle car. More that while a sport bike is stupid fast, the pure thrust off the line in a muscle car is quite different.

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06-03-2004 07:08 AM  13 years agoPost 11
the collective

rrKey Veteran

Bayside, NY, U.S.A

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That is some impressive video. I'd say the performance does visually compare well with a 90 machine, but I wonder if the scale has anything to do with it.

What I mean is, when he punches away, the machine gets small in a hurry, so it looks like it's hauling butt, but I wonder if a 90 punching out actually goes faster, but since it's so much bigger it doesn't seem to shrink in such a hurry, and thus appears slower?

Either way tho, the performance surprised me.

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06-03-2004 08:35 AM  13 years agoPost 12
pet_heli

rrNovice

Portland, Oregon

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well, is it more appropriete to compare 3d manouvers that are scalled down for the piccolo or does the pic have to go as fast and as far as the 90? (I'm still waiting for the video to download...) scaled down makes more sense to me....

except for the out-climbing comparison... that of course is same scale

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06-03-2004 04:56 PM  13 years agoPost 13
pbmax

rrKey Veteran

Olympia, WA - USA

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Reminds me of the market-speak on some store-bought toy radio control cars:

"Capable of speeds of up to 350 SCALE miles per hour!!!"

pbmax

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06-03-2004 08:02 PM  13 years agoPost 14
pet_heli

rrNovice

Portland, Oregon

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hehe yeah, i still remember a tv commercial with a drag race between their toy car and some sports car - where the toy won, but only because it was a really short race!

they were a kind of track car where if you have the track they follow it, but otherwise you flip them on and they go. i forget what they were called - but they were 7 or 8 inches long & you were supposed to buy upgrades for them, like metal guidewheels for the track, a 2nd motor, more AA batteries etc.

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› Power: Comparing micros to nitros: Interesting
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