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HelicopterCAD - Engineering - Technical › Need help! going from 2D to 3D machining...
06-02-2004 04:22 PM  13 years agoPost 1
LarryMiranda

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Sunny Las Vegas

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I have a Taig CNC with 4th axis rotary. I also have Desk CNC and Millwizzard and Rhino-3. So far, I have basically made parts out of flat alluminum by using the CNC to cut out parts (2D). I need some suggestions to get to 3D. I have never had any exposer to the CNC field professionally.

Need guidance - can someone help?

Larry

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06-03-2004 12:20 AM  13 years agoPost 2
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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What sort of parts do you want to 3D?

Terry

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06-03-2004 01:26 AM  13 years agoPost 3
LarryMiranda

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Hi Terry

Anything that my creative juices could conjur up if I knew how. For instance, a blade grip would be exciting..

Larry

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06-03-2004 03:12 AM  13 years agoPost 4
TMoore

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Is your machine capable of 3 axis simultaneous interpolation?

Terry

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06-03-2004 04:56 AM  13 years agoPost 5
LarryMiranda

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I think it is, but I'm not sure I know what that means.

Here is a link to the Mfg page. The picture is the same machine that I have.

http://www.microproto.com/micromill2000.htm


Larry

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06-03-2004 06:13 AM  13 years agoPost 6
JCadwell

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Richland WA/ Morro Bay, CA

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What machine control do you use? I have a taig as well. Decent little machine.

Thanks, John Cadwell

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06-04-2004 02:38 AM  13 years agoPost 7
LarryMiranda

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My controls are Micro Proto systems 2000. I am getting ready to install their mod which would allow my to use Desk CNC which is Windows based and will provide 4 axis machining. Should I learn how to use 4 axis.

I did sign up on CNCzone, but I can't find any forums that help the beginner. All the forums I went through involved those who already have a lot of expouser to CNC.

Larry

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06-04-2004 02:42 AM  13 years agoPost 8
JCadwell

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Richland WA/ Morro Bay, CA

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The Microproto drive system is phase drive correct? Does DeskCNC output phase drive or step/direction?

Microproto's website also mentions that Mach2 is now microproto compatible... Either the motor drive has changed, or the software. Any idea which?

Thanks, John Cadwell

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06-04-2004 03:55 AM  13 years agoPost 9
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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It's fairly simple, if you want to drill and tap holes in a swaslplate inner and outer this is a good job for 4th axis programming. If you can write a drill cycle, make an index command and repeat the drill cycle you can drill the holes in a swashplate, washout base or any of dozens of 4th axis type indexing work. You don't need a programming system to do that kind of work. Where it gets tricky is when you want to design something in a flat plane and then wrap the contour around a cylinder. Your machine will only need 3 simultaneously interpolating axes for that.

Surface machining is another matter. There are so many machining techniques and approaches to creating parts, solid models, wire frame surfaces and the like that I could bore you for hours diving into the intricate details of how this works and how many thousands of dollars that you will have to spend to get software capable of driving your small mills. Steppers won't give great results and are going to move real slow on 3D, these are not real machine tools in the classical sense, they are limited.

Cutting parts is easy, holding them is hard. Larry, unless you understand fixturing and workholding my recommendation is to start on something a little less ambitious than a blade grip, even though it may look simple, there are multiple setups involved and some measuring tools that you will need. If you look in my gallery you will see a couple of miniature manual machines, the investment in these machines pales in comparison to my investment in measuring tools, gauges, hand tools, cutters and about 60,000 hours of shop experience with 3,4 and 5 axis CNC mills, multi axis turning machines and flexible machining cells with rail guided vehicles and automation. My point is, what you are wanting in the way of help is not available in a RR type of format like we have for helis. The trade is varied, specialised and the people in the know are making money on something else other than heli parts.

Here is my suggestion: Find a local tech school with some night courses, drop by and have a word with the instructor and get to know him or her. Maybe taking a class is something that might interest you. Learn as much as you can about your particular machine, how it operates, how to set tools, if it has fixture offsets, what it's G-codes and M-codes do and how they operate. Knowing how the motion controller drives the slides isn't as important as knowing what G-code commands the slide from one point to another in rapid, in this case it is probably G0 or F0, learning speeds and feeds for different materials and cutters isn't the easiest thing to do because you have no experience to tell you whether or not the sound is right and if the chip is the right color or thickness and shape. You may have to calculate the suface footage at first.

Once you get familiar with your machine, know its limitations, can it tap holes, probably not, most machines of this size don't have a spindle motor that is capable of being controlled as to speed and rotation. So you will have to learn to hand tap. There will be some things that are easier to be done manually, know your requirements there. Scrounge scrap material for making spuds, pots, vise jaws and work stops. Buy a collet block set for 5C collets. They come in handy when you want to hold something and not booger it up in a vise.

Buy some cheap indicators, get an edge finder. A small cut off saw is handy and cheap. It really sucks when you want to make something and you go and buy a 36" piece of material and get it home and realise you will have to cut the part off with a hacksaw. You will need some layout tools, Dykem blue layout fluid, scribes, center punches, transfer punches, 8X power loupe, a small bench grinder for cutting tools like for fly cutters.

The list goes on. If you have a question PM me and I will try to answer it if I can.

Terry

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06-04-2004 04:59 AM  13 years agoPost 10
LarryMiranda

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Sunny Las Vegas

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John, the model I have is about 1.5 to 2 years old. The control is phase conversion, but I purchased the ZI-ZAX adapter board from Taig that converts the controls to step & direction. This will make it compatible with Desk CNC using the Desk-CNC controller card. I don't know what the Mod-2 is all about, but would guess it is already modified with the ZI-ZAX....

I am using Desk-CNC to generate my G-code, and I do cut parts out of alluminum regularly with no problem. Because I lack expouser to the techniques used my parts basically look like cut out parts. I would like to know how the edges are beveld so that it looks more like a finished part and to make it more complicated, what technique do you use to turn the part over and bevel the edges on the oppisite side while still maintaining your exact positioning you started with.

Terry, I have not been able to find any classes here or I would sign up in a heartbeat.

Can anyone recommend any training classes on CD or DVD....

Larry

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06-04-2004 05:12 AM  13 years agoPost 11
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Larry,

Remember how I talked about fixturing. If you want to chamfer a part you can get a small chamfer cutter, they are available from lot's of different sources. Holding the part is where the experience comes in. You have to come up with ways to flip the parts over and either mirror image the part of the program that does the chamfer or rewrite the chamfer pass. This is where cutter comp and tool offsetting work together to make that nice finished edge. I woul have to see a sample part to give you some idea on what to do.

CD, DVD or video training tapes will cost money, lots of money. The trades schools are usually budgeted heavily for this kind of thing. Call the local chapter of the NTMA, the National Tooling and Machining Association, they usually have local chapters.

Terry

http://www.ntma.org/

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06-04-2004 05:21 AM  13 years agoPost 12
JCadwell

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Richland WA/ Morro Bay, CA

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How much was the ZiZax? I didn't know they had it. That would solve many of my problems. Thanks.

Thanks, John Cadwell

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06-04-2004 05:30 AM  13 years agoPost 13
LarryMiranda

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Sunny Las Vegas

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John, the ZIZAX was under $100 if my memory serves me correct.

Larry

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06-05-2004 12:27 AM  13 years agoPost 14
LarryMiranda

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Today I ordered all Jose Rodrigues DVD's on milling and some on lathes. Does anyone have experience with his videos?

Larry

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