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Helicopter
e-
Century Radikal E640 - Swift 16 NX
› CP Hummer goes 3D pt2
06-02-2004 08:47 AM  13 years agoPost 1
wilsonj

rrApprentice

Waikerie, South Australia

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Well I put the axi 220-8/20 in the cp hummer tonight. Wow. I was stunned with the vertical performance this thing has. Unreal.

Went for a quick flight before it got too dark. But that was enough!

This little hummer really goes. It performed everything I threw at it. Tail stand take offs, tornados, tic tocs cyclone and even chaos!

The thing had power in reserve all the time. Never needed to go full throttle unless I wanted to just be impressed with the power!!

The main thing that was worrying me was how the tail would hold up. Well, it worked perfectly! Never missed a beat and held through everything I did. I am sure I can get it to give out, but will leave that till later.

Not sure how much current I am drawing yet either. Will probably check tonight or tommorrow.

Will also try and get some video over the weekend.

My setup.

CP hummingbird with alum head and auto hub.
3 HS55
DD tail
Axi 2208/20 with 21 tooth pinion
CC Pixie7p
CC phoenix10
Apogee 3S 830s
JR 610m Rx
GY401
Hornet 2 blades.

I give this heli two big thumbs up!!

Regards
Jamie Wilson

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06-02-2004 11:45 AM  13 years agoPost 2
Ben-T-Spindle

rrProfessor

Central Illinois

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Where did you get a 21t pinion?

Does the P10 governor mode work with the AXI?

... BTS

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06-02-2004 11:49 AM  13 years agoPost 3
pepper

rrVeteran

GREAT STATE OF TEXAS!!

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that's awsome,
get a vid, i would really like to see the hummer 3D

pepper

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06-02-2004 12:03 PM  13 years agoPost 4
wilsonj

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Waikerie, South Australia

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Because the axi uses a 1/8th inch shaft, the same as most rc buggy motors, most hobby shops will have pinons for them. They are also mostly 48pitch.

Yeah, video is on the way. Haven't mastered videoing and flying at the same time!

I don't have a digital camera either. But I can take some crude pics with my digital video of the setup.

One thing I also forgot to mention is I stiffened the head up by putting 2 extra brass washers on the spindle. I have a little head wobble now though, so I am next going to try removing the teeter pin.

Regards
Jamie

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06-03-2004 12:42 AM  13 years agoPost 5
zoom

rrElite Veteran

Galveston, Texas

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yeah

that sounds good, lets just get that video up and running

Predator, Raptor 30, TRex CCPM 450TH, 3D Pro 400F

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06-03-2004 01:26 AM  13 years agoPost 6
flydoc

rrNovice

Cincinnati, Ohio

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wilsonj / inverted

Sounds great! Did you try inverted flight and does it climb out well inverted?

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06-03-2004 01:36 AM  13 years agoPost 7
wilsonj

rrApprentice

Waikerie, South Australia

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Yes, did inverted flight. Climb out isn't as good as it could be. But I have to take the alum. head off and elongate the pitch slot further to get more negative pitch. Probably do that today.

Regards
Jamie

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06-03-2004 03:42 AM  13 years agoPost 8
zoom

rrElite Veteran

Galveston, Texas

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These are in stock now

FP blade roots

Predator, Raptor 30, TRex CCPM 450TH, 3D Pro 400F

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06-03-2004 04:19 AM  13 years agoPost 9
wilsonj

rrApprentice

Waikerie, South Australia

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Well, CP goes 3D into the ground!

Pissed off. Must be pulling too many amps and my CC10 esc goes into over current soft off. Was doing tic tocs and then lost almost all power. Couldn't do much about it. Hit throttle hold to reduce the damage. Still broke a blade. Nothing else though that I can see. Hopefully nothing is bent. So pissed off I can't be bothered checking.

Must be the tail motor pushing it over the edge.

Not happy

Jamie

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06-03-2004 10:11 AM  13 years agoPost 10
zoom

rrElite Veteran

Galveston, Texas

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That's why I was asking how many amps the PHX 10 could take because it seemed as if my system shut off for a second when my amp meter read 12.1 amps until I returned the throttle to zero and then spooled back up. I got scared for a moment cuase I thought I may have fried my PHX 10. It may not have seemed as if is was the biggest problem, but actually it can be if it shuts off while its close to the ground especially since that where we tend to fly micros.

Predator, Raptor 30, TRex CCPM 450TH, 3D Pro 400F

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06-03-2004 10:26 AM  13 years agoPost 11
wilsonj

rrApprentice

Waikerie, South Australia

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Zoom, it looks like we may have to "tame" down these machines, or risk crashing due to overcurrent shutdowns. Or, turn off the overcurrent on the esc. Probably not the best idea though.

Incidentally I went back to the smaller MS blades. Nothing else broke in the crash except one blade. The shorter blades are terrible in comparison. About 30% down on power.

Those H2 blades are really a rip off. They are like egg shells, have no spar or weight. Just a hollow, very fragile shell. I won't be buying any more. I will just wait until something else is available. I have someone working on it!! 8-)

Regards
Jamie

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06-03-2004 10:39 AM  13 years agoPost 12
zoom

rrElite Veteran

Galveston, Texas

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Oh yeah sorry to hear about the crash

But see the thing is, everybody stated that the PHX 25 was over kill for this machine. We have gone thru alot to maximize this CP hummer, it would be a shame to stop now. I think you should keep running your 255mm blades and just get the PHX 25. And they said it was over-kill. This amp meter and your crash prove otherwise. It not just you blades because I was running the Century symmetrical woodies and my system still went over 12amps and shut-off. We just need the phx 10's big brother. You can still sell it to someone who is not ready for the hard core 3D stuff.

The PHX 25 is about $20-25 more, that is 1/2 the cost of those MS 255mm CF blades. Heck, that is worth saving a set of woodies in a crash, because my sytem shuts down too over >11-12 amps.

Predator, Raptor 30, TRex CCPM 450TH, 3D Pro 400F

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06-03-2004 01:23 PM  13 years agoPost 13
3De

rrApprentice

Australia

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Another option might be to optimise it for 4 cells, should be able to get the same power with 30% less currrent, this should stop the 10A ESC tripping, and reduce the stress on the 830 apogee's, would have to check the spec's on the motor though to see if we can run the same turns and just drop back to a ~15T pinion.

Other issue is going to be the tail motor

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06-03-2004 01:40 PM  13 years agoPost 14
zoom

rrElite Veteran

Galveston, Texas

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The tail is rated as 7.2 volt, it does fine with the 3cell juice. however GWS does sell 10.8v tail motors. i'll have do some more testing to see just how much voltage it is receiving. it is running through the 401 gyro which should see too much more than 5.0v. we will see. Besides i dont know of any pinion available greater than 13T for 2.0mm shaft. let me know anyone comes across one.

Predator, Raptor 30, TRex CCPM 450TH, 3D Pro 400F

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06-03-2004 02:05 PM  13 years agoPost 15
wilsonj

rrApprentice

Waikerie, South Australia

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Zoom,

I'm not totally sold on the overcurrent problem yet. The one thing I think we maybe overlooking is that fact that the amp meter is reading the current from the battery, not the esc. As the main motor itself doesn't pull over the 10amps, but the total system does when the tail is included. But the tail has its own esc.

Try disconnecting the tail, hold the heli and try the amp test again. I can't make mine draw more than 9.5amps.

I wonder if it was a glitch? I have the CC10 quite close to my Rx. Wonder if that maybe causing the problem??

I have some GWS high volt DD tails coming. They certainly don't produce the same power that the lower voltage ones do, at the same voltage, but the do draw much less. Could help get longer flight times, and put less stress on our batteries.

Food for thought.

Regards
Jamie

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06-03-2004 03:27 PM  13 years agoPost 16
zoom

rrElite Veteran

Galveston, Texas

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You have a point about the amount amps the main motor is drawing

I just subtracted the 3.2 amp total that my tail motor is drawing from the battery and the from the 12.1amps the total systems displays, which puts my main mtor and controller at about 8.9A total. I dought if my main motor is ever drawing more than 9 amps either, which would rule out the speed controller not being good enough.

On the other hand, I don't think the porblem is the RX in my case because I specifically went out and got that expensive Berg 6 III, which guaranteed to filter out all glitches. I mean the d@mn thing was $80 itself. I guess it is still possible. But glitches should not be that consistent, nor predictable. Plus on micros, we don't have the luxury on moving components too far away from each other they way that we do on nitros. We are many miles away, were are running different components, the only things that really consistent about our helis are that we are running PHX 10, pixie 7, 401, High headspeeds, have systems pulling greater than 11-12 amps total at times, and that both systems have shut down during operation.

Something has to be up. I do have some cells here that I can experiment with and build a four cell pack is series. I would just have to disassemble of my other packs and re-wire it. I guess the worse that happen it burning up the edp 50 ($ 12-15), or and explosion from accidently shorting out the cells

I'll keep testing and try to figure out something.

The only other source off current draw are the 3 servos. which were all included in my total amp draw on the battery.

Predator, Raptor 30, TRex CCPM 450TH, 3D Pro 400F

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06-03-2004 05:37 PM  13 years agoPost 17
Lift

rrElite Veteran

Houston, TX

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Jamie,
What headspeed and pitch are you running?

Governor mode or throttle curves?

Any head mods? Stock head or aluminum?

Way to go bud...keep us posted!

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06-03-2004 05:39 PM  13 years agoPost 18
fwilly

rrNovice

Weatherford TX

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What is your low voltage cut off set to? Since it went in to soft cut off, it sounds like maybe the packs voltage dropped below your cut off voltage under heavy load. I'm not sure, but I think over current protection cuts all power, even if its set to soft cut off.

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06-03-2004 10:02 PM  13 years agoPost 19
Lift

rrElite Veteran

Houston, TX

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Jamie,
Those Apogee cells don't seem to hold up very well to high currentl drain like the Thunder Power cells do. The voltage drops off pretty good at 7C.

http://www.pfmdistribution.com/Apogee830Spec.html

This MIGHT be why it was powering off like fwilly mentioned. Disable voltage cut off and see what it does.

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06-03-2004 10:08 PM  13 years agoPost 20
wilsonj

rrApprentice

Waikerie, South Australia

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Zoom,

Totally agree with you.

Let me know how a 4 cell pack goes. I was always going to try one, but was pretty darn happy with the performance I was getting on 3. Except for the shutdown.

The DD tail will probably be ok. But the high volt version and a regulator would probably be best, eventually. Its not the voltage that kills the motor its the current.

Another thing to try, test the voltage under load of a half empty pack at full throttle. I have my voltage cut at 7.2, I doubt very much that it gets that low. I recharged my pack after the incident, and it took 400ma, approx 50%.

Lift,
I haven't tached it yet, but from calculations somewhere around 2500-2700rpm( depending on voltage and load). I could go quicker, but thats probably quick enough with the larger blades on.

I am not using governor mode. I like control over what I am doing. So I setup my idle up to 100, 97, 93, 90, 90, 90, 90, 90, 90, 90, 93, 97, 100.% Phew! Bloody 9z ! Using fixed throttle mode.

I was also going to use throttle to cyclic mixing to counter the extra load during hard manouvers. But I am not sure that is really neccessay. More flight time will tell.

Yes, I am running the alum. head. I have elongated the pitch window so as to get more negative.

The other mod I have done is to remove the teeter pin from the spindle and to add 2 extra washer/shims to the spindle to tighten the head.

Regards
Jamie Wilson

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e-
Century Radikal E640 - Swift 16 NX
› CP Hummer goes 3D pt2
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