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HelicopterOff Topics › Cost Of War...
05-02-2004 02:58 AM  13 years agoPost 21
melsman

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Atascadero, CA

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Semper Fi.

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05-02-2004 04:07 AM  13 years agoPost 22
Sealerman

rrVeteran

Long Island, New York.

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I feel the world is diminished with out them, it is men and women like these that make this country great. It saddens me to see and hear about their sacrifice but it would be far worse if we let them be just faceless numbers. The people of this great country is what makes us great, I hope we can live up to their example.
Sealerman

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05-02-2004 05:14 AM  13 years agoPost 23
divebomber

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California

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Well said, Sealerman.

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05-02-2004 05:31 AM  13 years agoPost 24
kc2huv

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Cornwall, NY

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Sealerman......we don't usually agree, but....right on brother!


GOD BLESS ALL WE LOST!

GOD BLESS THE MANY MORE THAT WILL BE LOST HERE AND ABROAD!

I guess life has changed, never thought I was going to see so many friends perish in the heart of Manhatten.

EVO 50 Futaba 9CHP (50 MHz) Futaba GY-401/9253 O.S. Max 50 SXh

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05-02-2004 06:40 AM  13 years agoPost 25
Freya

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Seattle, Washington

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The best way to support these men and women is to give your support whether you think you were sold a bill of goods or not. It was the wafflers and spineless politicians that made vietnam what it was. These people need our support 100% No matter what. We are there now so lets give them every tool they need to hasten their return home!

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05-02-2004 07:55 AM  13 years agoPost 26
Fullagas

rrKey Veteran

Michigan

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.
Freya, well said.

It was great that Nightline ran this, and too bad the administration put pressure on the network to stop it.

These brave folks deserve to be honored for their supreme sacrifice.



.

Flying helis since gyros had springs.

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05-02-2004 08:43 AM  13 years agoPost 27
Green Shuttle

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Helsinki, Finland

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I'm a Finnish social democrat. If you knew what kind of policy I support in social affairs you would say I'm a communist. But still I'm pro Iraq war. We can discuss was it smart at first place to go to Iraq. But right now I can't simply see any other solution that to stay in Iraq and fight like a hell. If western troops would leave Iraq now, the result would propably be even worse terrorist country than Afghanistan was. It would also be an agony to Iraqian civilians due resulting civil war. I was shocked when Spain told it will retreat form Iraq. It was like saying to terrorists "if you are not happy with our foreign policy, pleace come and make suicide raid in our capital".

RIP those honorable men who died in Iraq.

-Teemu

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05-23-2004 12:51 PM  13 years agoPost 28
cp8

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Buckeye State

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compelled to forward this leter from a friend:

> The war in Iraq is becoming increasingly unpopular. Stories of
> prisoner abuse, mounting casualties, and perceived lack of control are
> featured daily in the media. Ted Kennedy, John Kerry and Americans who
> follow the lead of the media increasingly compare Iraq to Vietnam.
> Indeed, if allowed to continue unchecked, these notions could become
> self-fulfilling prophecy. Step back for a moment. The brutal beheading
> of American Nick Berg should be a moment of clarity for the American
> people. Nick Berg's killers were Al Qaeda. The man speaking on the
> videotape of this savagery is Abu Zarqawi, no Iraqi freedom fighter, no
> new recruit inspired by "American adventurism," but a lieutenant of Osama
> Bin Laden's. This man not only savagely executed Nick Berg, but is also
> credited with coordinating much of the violence and unrest within Iraq.
> Zarqawi is Al Qaeda. Zarqawi is an officer in an organization that has
> declared war on the US and the western world. An organization that has
> demonstrated the seriousness of its declaration with attacks against us
> over two decades. Yes, Al Qaeda is in Iraq.
>
> Regardless of what you think about the reasoning or rationale behind
> going to Iraq in the first place, it is now clear that Iraq is a major
> battleground in the war on terror. Our enemy in Iraq is the same enemy
> who carried out the first World Trade Center bombing, shot down our
> Blackhawks and drug our soldier's lifeless bodies through the streets of
> Mogadishu Somalia, destroyed the Khobar towers in Saudi Arabia, bombed our
> embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, murdered and maimed our soldiers on the
> USS Cole, and shocked us all on September Eleventh. United by fear,
> outrage and grief we collectively resolved to defeat international
> terrorism. For the first time, we took the fight to the terrorists rather
> than reacting to them.
>
> Had anyone asked in the days following 9/11, most of us would have
> been convinced that another attack on our homeland was imminent. No one
> would have thought that we would be able to advance two years and eight
> months into the future without another attack. Yet we at home have
> remained safe and secure from terror. Why? Bin Laden is on the run. Too
> busy plotting his survival and his escape from one cave to the next, he
> has little time to plot his next attack. Likewise, the terrorists have
> decided to fight us in Iraq rather than attacking us at home. Our men and
> women, trained to fight and protect us, are killing the terrorist on the
> streets of Baghdad; denying them the opportunity to kill us on Main
> Street. Victory in Iraq is imperative to the war on terror. Victory in
> Iraq is essential to the security of the US.
>
> We the silent majority can not remain silent, as we did during the
> Vietnam war. Vietnam was not lost in the jungles and rice paddies of
> Vietnam; it was lost at home. As the vocal minority turned public opinion
> against the war, our enemy was encouraged and our military was handcuffed
> by politicians and their political concerns. Although the Vietcong never
> defeated the US Army in major combat action, they did break our national
> will. This is the modus operandi of guerilla fighters. They cannot
> defeat a more powerful enemy, but they can force him to retreat by
> breaking his will. The terrorists are guerillas. All of the terrorists
> in the world could not defeat the United States military in an open fight,
> but through repeated pin pricks they hope to break our national will. It
> seems they already have some allies in our media and among some national
> politicians.
>
> It is therefore up to us, the great silent majority, to salvage our
> national will. We must and resolve to support this war, our troops and
> our President. Failure is an option only if we want to live like the
> Israelis, with checkpoints, metal detectors, armed guards at movie
> theaters, national ID cards and an assorted asunder of measures designed
> to keep us secure while trampling on the freedoms we currently take for
> granted. The Patriot Act will be but the tip of the iceberg. This is not
> freedom, this is not America and this is not an option. Ask yourself, as
> Patrick Henry did, "Is life so dear or peace so sweet, to be purchased at
> the price of chains and slavery?" Patrick Henry concluded..."Forbid it
> Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give
> me liberty or give me death!"
>
> Right now there are 200,000 men and women in Iraq and many thousands
> more in our armed forces around the world who believe these principals.
> They believe them so completely that, as you read this, they risk their
> lives for our liberty and our security. If you agree, it is time to take
> action. If you know a soldier, sailor or airman e-mail or write them, let
> them know. I personally have a cousin overseas and a friend in Iraq. My
> friend has been in Iraq, separated from his wife for nearly 18 months. I
> would like to send this letter to him, and let them know what I think
> about what they are doing over there. I would like to let them know that
> it is important and that the national will is behind them. I would also
> like to show them proof that his is the sentiment of the majority. If you
> would like to help, type your name at the bottom of this e-mail and send
> it back to mawolf2004@yahoo.com, then forward it to your friends and have
> them do the same. I'd like for them to have as many supporters as
> possible by Memorial Day.
>
> More importantly, if you are reading this and you agree, resolve to making
> our national will strong. Write your newspapers, call talk shows, vote,
> and, most importantly, if you hear someone compare this war to Vietnam,
> stop them. This is a war for our security and our freedom; the enemy in
> Iraq is Al Qaeda. Remind them of this, because this only becomes another
> Vietnam if we, the silent majority let it. Our collective voice can
> solidify our national will, strengthen our resolve and deny victory to the
> terrorists. Let the silent majority be silent no longer.
>
> Mark Wolf
> Matt Wolf

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05-23-2004 01:31 PM  13 years agoPost 29
pistole

rrVeteran

Heli Land ....

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.
Moore..........

Fahrenheit 9/11

Cannes

.......

Rap70. TT70.Rap50. TT50.RD8000.

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05-23-2004 02:16 PM  13 years agoPost 30
debogus

rrApprentice

Beauklahoma,peoples republic of mexifornia,USSA

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? Moore 911
IMO
More funding
more troops
finish the job,so our people can come home.

Stand united or divided we fall .DO YOU UNDERSTAND

My goal today ,pick on defeatest.

I give thanks to those who gave their lives in war
,so I can type this post .


Dave
liveD

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05-23-2004 03:22 PM  13 years agoPost 31
nipps85

rrNovice

gurnee illinois

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WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR YOU AND YOUR COUNTRY??
What has my country done for me? Well besides take away my freedoms every chance they get, and steal over 40% of my income every week. I figure with the amount of money I have stolen from me, they can pay somebody to fight for me... or stop the fighting to begin with. This war has nothing to do with freedom or safety for the US.

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05-23-2004 03:44 PM  13 years agoPost 32
crash1953

rrVeteran

Washington State

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I am getting sick of these whinning sissies that would rather live under a dictator like saddam was than fight for freedom .. The fight for freedom took millions of lives and it is not over yet ...Freedom is not free .Freedom is not for these whinners tree hugging candle lighter touchy feely types.Freedom takes guts and the nerve to do what it takes to stay free ..That means people will die to stay free .. Why dont all of these ,what I call traitors ,go over to some of these countrys .. I know these countrys would welcome them with open arms and do what Hanoi Jane should have done .. STAYED THERE !!The bitch!!This war over there may mean NO WAR HERE !! I for one dont want to have these kind of people here killing babies blowing up school busses and people in malls etc. If it takes killing every last terroist on the planet ,I am for it !!! I dont care where they are !! They need to be rooted out and killed ..Not play touchy feely with them .. The terroists arent good people and the traitors in this country need to find that out soon ..THIS IS NOT VIETNAM . THIS IS THE REAL THING !!!IF WE DONT WIN WE WILL ALL DIE AND THE TRAITORS IN THIS COUNTRY WILL HAVE HELPED THE TERROISTS IN EVERY WAY ACHIEVE THAT GOAL by not supporting the fight there and our troops that are over there getting killed, so that these sissy whinner traitors can have the freedom to whine and complain what terrible people we are to want freedom ..This war my be the single most important war in this country since the revolutionary war to be a free society ..I never want to see people die for nothing and I believe we are doing the right thing .I have seen people killed for nothing and that is worse than anything .. If we allow it ,all the brave solders that died and will die for freedom will die for nothing ..This is America ,a place where we can complain and do anything we want ,to believe in whatever religion we want to ,without being killed for that right .. Half of the world is not like the traitors in this country think it is and sooner or later they will be the first to find out if we dont WIN THIS WAR!!.

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05-23-2004 04:11 PM  13 years agoPost 33
cloudmax

rrApprentice

Bay Ridge Brooklyn,NY

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THIS IS NOT VIETNAM . THIS IS THE REAL THING !!!IF WE DONT WIN WE WILL ALL DIE AND THE TRAITORS IN THIS COUNTRY WILL HAVE HELPED THE TERROISTS IN EVERY WAY ACHIEVE THAT GOAL
Without getting into this again one side or another, Do you realize that your quote here is exactly what was being said during the Vietnam war? Just switch terrorists for communists.
We had to pull out of that mess. We were NOT over run with commies.South Vietnam was. I see the same thing happening in Iraq.
Once we leave some sand monkey will fill the vacuum with another America hating government. They don't seem to want freedom as much as we want to give it to them. THAT'S the same situation as Vietnam.

You also do a grave disservice to the men who fought and died in Vietnam.
I'm sure if you talked to any one of the men who served there they would surely enlighten you to the fact that it was indeed the "real thing" they were in.

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05-23-2004 04:34 PM  13 years agoPost 34
z11355

rrMaster

New England

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http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000099.html

http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000100.html


Read it all if you have the attention span.

Agree or not, whatever fits your world view.

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05-23-2004 05:32 PM  13 years agoPost 35
KnimRod

rrApprentice

Central Michigan

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It's called "resolve". Bush has it and so do most of the American people.

There was no 911 before Vietnam and North Vietnam posed no direct threat to the US or anybody except South Vietnam. North Vietnam was never able to launch an attack that killed 3000 people in a single stroke. How can anyone compare the two except for political reasons? The war on terror is World War III whether accepted as such or not. It's being fought all over the world and we must win. We cannot simply walk away from it. The terrorists hate western civilization. They hate America. They hate our freedom. They are extremists and fanatics who value our death more than their own lives.

I think Bush has it right. Since the terrorists have no place to call home, we take the war to whoever supports and finances them. Better there than here. It's a different kind of war but the stakes are high and just as deadly. Like Bush or not... At least he has the resolve to actually win this war. He's sincere and has the gravitas to see it through. Iran and Syria should take note.

Lance

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05-23-2004 06:10 PM  13 years agoPost 36
cloudmax

rrApprentice

Bay Ridge Brooklyn,NY

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North Vietnam posed no direct threat to the US or anybody except South Vietnam.
Your quote would have made ANY peace activist of the 60s proud!

How old are you? Do you remember Vietnam?
The idea that N.Vietnam and the communists in China and the USSR supporting N.Vietnam were a DIRECT threat to the US was the governments WHOLE SELLING POINT of the Vietnam war!
Sound familiar?
Back then the US government told us that if we allowed N.Vietnam to win and over run S. Vietnam we would be fighting commies on the Whitehouse lawn. No sh*t! It was THAT much of a threat to us DIRECTLY. THAT is what we were told.
History has proven that to have been wrong. We left and the North over ran the South and the people of Vietnam could care less about freedom.
I don't recall any commies attacking the Whitehouse after the fall of S. Vietnam.

I personally think we should go balls out in Iraq and not fight with our hands tied behind our backs by political correctness. I feel this war is being handled like crap. More soldiers dying and no light at the end of the tunnel. Just like Vietnam. We could stay and fight and die for 10 years and the second we leave some fanatical religious nut will take over and we're back to square one. These people don't want or even understand what western freedom is all about! We assume they want it based on what WE enjoy here but they can't even understand what freedom like we have is.
That too is a lot like Vietnam.
The best thing we can do is get the hell out of there as soon as we can.
If that means bombing mosques and doing whatever it takes to get us to some "victory" so we can leave...so be it.
North Vietnam was never able to launch an attack that killed 3000 people in a single stroke.
Right you are there! But they were able to kill 58,000 people over a few years. And when all was said and done...S. Vietnam fell because the people of that country did not want the freedom we were dying to give them. The time and place and a lot of the situation is different in Iraq but that is one thing that is the same. If THEY are not willing to fight and die for freedom we can't do it for them. History has proven that again and again and again.

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05-23-2004 06:36 PM  13 years agoPost 37
Heliscat

rrApprentice

Dublin, CA

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taxes

what have I done for my country? I work, I pay taxes, al lot of taxes, I am a functioning citizen. If you don't have the opinion someone wants you too then they tell you to get out if you don't like it. Funny thing is, you're fighting for my freedom of opinion. It's sad to see all these good people died for BUSH. Why doesn't he enlist his daughters? His approval rating will drop much more and soon they'll be saying only the folks at runryder approve of him. Stop the dying and get the hell out of there.

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05-23-2004 06:59 PM  13 years agoPost 38
cloudmax

rrApprentice

Bay Ridge Brooklyn,NY

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Unfortunately we can't just pull out now. We're truly stuck there.
The kaos that would happen in Iraq if we left would put us in even more danger.
The truth is that Iraq was a more secure place for the US with Sadam in power. He couldn't do crap without the world knowing about it and he kept his people in line. No "insurgents" while he was in charge. The sheep in Iraq didn't seem to mind being under his thumb.
Now? well, I sure wouldn't want to be one of these "interim leaders".
How do the folks that are totally supporting Bush see this war ending?
Give me your thoughts on how this war will end.
Free elections at voting places with smiling Iraqis? A democratically elected leader walking the streets of Bagdad shaking hands with his public? The people of Iraq shopping at the new Bagdad Mall?
Come on! Blood, blood, blood for a LONG time. Right up until we DO leave then after some more blood they will have another madman to lead them.

We need to pop in some leader, salute him and then get the f*ck out of there. They will sink or swim based on their own want for democracy.
I see them sinking. But we sure as hell don't need to be there dying for 10 years before it happens.

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05-23-2004 07:41 PM  13 years agoPost 39
KnimRod

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Central Michigan

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I'm not here to argue the Vietnam war. Though I do think it was poorly thought out, planned and executed with too much regard for the political agendas of politicians. I'm old enough to remember it, I enlisted in the Army in 1974. We were there because South Vietnam asked for our help and because helping is something America does.

Regardless, my point was that it's not the same. I suppose one could argue the same threat existed (but never materialized) for the first two world wars (with the exception of Pearl Harbor). On 9/11 we were attacked. Not by Iraq, not by Afghanistan, but by terrorists that dwell behind no real borders. Baghdad isn't Hanoi. We're in Baghdad and its citizens are enjoying their new found freedoms icluding the right to protest openly. Iraq and the rest of the world has been liberated from one of the most notorious terrorists that ever existed. The liberation needs to continue.

I agree with you that we shouldn't be pulling punches in Iraq. But the war is being managed by politicians who have to answer to the public on election day. And public opinion is very powerful factor. It's frustrating to think that we always seem to arrive at a sharply divided opinion base because the politicians seem to cater to the status quo.

It took 10 years to claim those 58,000 lives in Vietnam. It doesn't take a plane to land on a building in my town to realize that times (and weapons) have changed and that 10 years of post 911 terrorism could far surpass the level of casualties the world has ever seen unless we do something about it.

Lance

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05-23-2004 08:09 PM  13 years agoPost 40
donhagler

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Lawton, Ok

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