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HelicopterMiniature Aircraft Whiplash & Fury 55 › Problem with Fury Tempest Head
04-30-2004 01:46 AM  13 years agoPost 1
Linley

rrApprentice

Rockville Centre - LongIsland, New York

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I really would appreciate if anyone can help me with my New Fury Tempest.

I've had my Fury Tempest for 2 months now with about 3 gallons through it and Iam simply not happy with it because its not flying as expected. I also fly a Pro II K and often a friends SE and other Miniture helicopters so I know how they should fly. Problem is that my Fury is all over the place. I cannot get it to hover well nor get it trimmed out - Its always changing. The Problem I suspect is the Head. By grabbing the two blade grips, you should be able to rock the head back and forth between the dampening and see some movement. This is not the case in my Fury. Its very very stiff. A friend of mine who also has 5 xcells agrees and we compared this to our other machines. There is absoutely no movement of the spindle(Blade Grips) between the dampening. I also noticed that there is barely any space between the head spindle and inside part of the yoke to allow dampeing movement. I built the head excately as per the instructions using 2 medium dampners and the washer supplied. My ProII K has one Hard and one Medium dampners and its easy to rock the head back and forth.

Please help!

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04-30-2004 06:34 AM  13 years agoPost 2
Buzzin Brian

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College Station, Texas

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How many shims did you use? You do not have to put all of the shims in. If you did, that will make the head real tight. You can also use expo if needed to soften it up in a hover and FF. Or you can add weights to the flybar to tame it down a bit as well. Or both if needed to get the feel you want. I have a buddy that has a Tempest 3D, and his flies like a PIG. Very slow on the cyclic, and almost to easy to fly. My Tempest 3D/FAI on the other hand is a wild animal. But that is how I like it. So it is in the set up of the bird. Not the bird its self. You can make it mild or wild, if you do certain things to get it where you want it.

Build it, fly it, crash it. Repeat as often as needed.

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04-30-2004 02:55 PM  13 years agoPost 3
Chopper

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Stow,Oh- oops, I mean St Louis, nope Stow again,

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If the machine will not sit in a hover the problem is usually tight ball links or the flybar paddle not paralell to the swashplate. Having a tight head will help the hover, but you only need to think about moving the controls and the heli moves. The CCPM Tempest will be much more responsive than a PRO 2K. Put the pro paddles on the Tempest and I bet you heli will tame down in a hurry. The ratios for the flybar are the same (or can be made to be the same.) Servos are a huge part of the equation in a ccpm machine. The Tempest will fly just like your Pro if you set it up the same.

Paul Soha

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04-30-2004 03:55 PM  13 years agoPost 4
Linley

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Rockville Centre - LongIsland, New York

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Problem with Tempest Head

Gentlemen, thaks for your responses. I used the minimal amounts of shims - I think one per side. What you need to understand is that there needs to be some dampening effect. What I mean is that you should be able to grab the head grips and rock back and forth and see some dampening effect of the rotir head between the yoke assembly. When I do this on this perticular machine, the whole heli moves - as if the head is way too tight. I've been building xcell for 6 years now and never had this problem. The machine is not flying good at all. Its not tight ball links, paddles are perfectly aligned, all servos are 9252 brand new. I have flown other Furys (Extremes, etc..) Mine is the only Tempest I've ever flown. I know its a great machine because I was very impressed with the extreme. My biggest concern is the dampening - I know that the head should rock a little between the yoke. This is probably true for just about any Heli. I did take head apart but do not see anything I can do ?

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04-30-2004 06:26 PM  13 years agoPost 5
GM1

rrElite Veteran

Tallahassee, Florida US

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Head

It would be helpful to know WHICH Tempest head you have. The FAI head responds better to softer O rings, 50 and 60 durometer. In either case the blade axle should teeter in the dampers at least some.
As Paul says, a Tempest head that will not sit is usually tight balls that do not allow the servos to center the same each time. Nonparallel flybar paddles can also have a similar effect or even something as simple as excessive cyclic.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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04-30-2004 06:34 PM  13 years agoPost 6
SolarXtreme

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Arroyo Grande, CA

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Remove the collective linkages from the bell mixers and make sure that the blades pivot on the spindle without any tightness or binding. It is too easy to get just a drop of locktight between the blade grib and the spindle because the hole for the set screw is hollow all the way to the spindle. If you do not get smooth collective movement the ship will feel like it is very hard to control.
.

I picked a hell of a day to quit drinking

Avant EFX
Freya EVO

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04-30-2004 06:38 PM  13 years agoPost 7
Chopper

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Stow,Oh- oops, I mean St Louis, nope Stow again,

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Well,
IF your head speed is the same,
IF you have the blade grips and bearings installed properly,
If you do not have ANY tight links,
IF you are using the same blades and paddles,
IF your engine is running really, really, really well,
it should fly well.

I have flown FAI for a decade, and by far, the best hovering and flying helis have the tightest dampening. We would get the dampening tight enough that it would wobble 50 rpm lower than the hover head speed. This means that the heli will respond imediately to the stick input. A soft head will sit by itself in calm, but move off center in wind. If your heli is not wobbleing, the dampening is not too tight.

My guess is that you have become accustomed to a very soft, mushy head set up. The Tempest may have a few more RPM on the head, or an engine that is still a little rough with head speed a few RPM higher and it is causing you some grief because it will not settle in.

Change the head for the one on your Pro. The difference will be about 10mm longer on your swash to mixer links. You will feel a diference, but I bet it won't fly that much better.

This is exactly the type of thing where the help of the local FAI field rep is invaluable. There is nothing in the machine that will prevent you from flying it well (including the dampening,) but the minor details in the overall set up might be messing you up. I believe your fix lies at a fun fly where you can talk to some people who have been flying these things for a year or so and have worked out these little irritations.

Good luck,
Paul Soha

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04-30-2004 07:09 PM  13 years agoPost 8
Linley

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Rockville Centre - LongIsland, New York

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Fury Tempest Head Problems

Thanks to all for your help. The collective and all movements are very smooth and fast. All servos are travelling well as there is no binding.
The links are not too tight. Swashplate is level through the whole collective movement. But something is very weird here. I noticed yesterday that in regular hover mode just flying around that it has tendency to want to pitch up (I will try to lower the pitch curve here, maybe this will help) I using MAH Blades so I know thats not the problem. Using Duralites 4000 Mah pack, and heli is slightly nose heavy. With level swashplate I don't think it should pitch up. In addition, it seems like Iam constantly trimming the heli and then it needs the reverse trim as the flights progrees ( I know the fule tank level has something to do with this) But its on ailerons.

Can anybody comment on the the stiffness on the head. Is there supposed to be some lateral movement - How much should the blade grips spindle move in the dampners. The rotor head is extreamly Stiff -

Thanks

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04-30-2004 09:30 PM  13 years agoPost 9
Linley

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Rockville Centre - LongIsland, New York

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Thrust Bearings may be Installed Incorrectly

Just spoke to Tim from Miniture and explained the circumstances. He told me that it could be the Thrust bearings installed incorrectly. He has seen this before with the exact "In Trim" "Out of Trim" flight performance Iam experiencing. He agrees that the rotor head should be stiff ot more stiff then the ProII K and SE's Iam used to. As you all may know, there are two retainers that hold the bearing in place on the spindle. One has a larger inner diameter then the other. The larger diameter fits loose on the spindle then the other - this one must be installed closer to the the center of the hub.
Iam going to check the rotor head see of I made this mistake

Thanks

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05-03-2004 05:32 PM  13 years agoPost 10
Chuckie

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Crofton Maryland

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In my Tempest 3D, I can't move the spindle in and out. The up and down play while moving the blade holders is very small to non-existent, i.e. tight. I also had two SE's and the Tempest 3D head is much tighter. Compared to the SE the Tempest flys with less input, tracks straighter in any angle, and in general is a much smoother flying machine. I did find the heli moving vertically in the wind a lot more than the SE but for the FAI version this was expected. In windy conditions a stable model will hold its position or move slightly into the wind gusts. The head and flybar system is reacting as designed.

To reduce the pitch up tendency install the flybar weights half way out and set blades for 6 degrees of cyclic pitch. You can set for 7 degrees if you need more cyclic speed. Set pitch curve to linear line +-9 to 9.5 degrees in all flight modes. Use throttle curve to set head speed in all flight modes.

Did you find the problem in the thrust bearings?

Chuckie

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05-03-2004 06:34 PM  13 years agoPost 11
Linley

rrApprentice

Rockville Centre - LongIsland, New York

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Tempest Head

Hi, I did take the rotor head apart and the thrust bearings were installed correctly after all. But I did find another problem. Part# 848-4 (Aluminum retainer sleeves) were in backwards. The cupped side was facing the correct way - towards the center of the rotor head. But the slit on top was facing down in the blade grip. Cannot see how this would made a difference, but interchnaged both and reinstalled correctly and/or as exact per drawings. Also, part # 0331 Shim was in the wrong place. I used part # 0840-10 instead and used 0331 in the correct place for 0840-10. I corrected this and went out to the field:

Results = Wow! What a difference - I can't believe those small changes made such a difference. I don't have the constant out of trim problem nor bad tracking. Heli Tracks perfectly and is a pleasure to fly.

Lesson learned - Just because you built other xcells and many times over (Crashes etc..) Each new model is a little different. The Fury head may look similiar or that the blade grips resembles my other xcells, but they are different and I should have paid better attention to the instructions.

Thanks

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HelicopterMiniature Aircraft Whiplash & Fury 55 › Problem with Fury Tempest Head
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