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HelicopterMain Discussion › Have Raptors Ruined the Midsize market??
04-29-2004 08:32 AM  13 years agoPost 1
Parsifal

rrVeteran

Singapore

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TT built a model helicopter for a bargain price at the expense of quality.

Other manufacturers, forced to either become competitive in pricing or shift their focus to larger machines (Kyosho) or undercut even further (Century). Those stuck in the middle trying to balance quality, price and performance (Hirobo) are having to contend with quality control issues and stop gap measures to rectify design and/or quality issues as a result of having to obtain a precise balance.

All the while, manufacturers like XCELL, Robbe, Bergen, Henseleit (Who thankfully are making a 50 soon) and the like, who are not constrained primarily with price are producing excellent, durable products which technologically, whilst probably applicable to smaller beginner sized machines, will not prove a viable business for said manufacturers simply because consumers will likely go the cheap and cheerful route when starting out in the hobby as opposed to paying slightly more for a more robust product.

Or maybe i'm just griping because the weekend is still a day away.

Thoughts on the matter?


Pars.

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04-29-2004 08:47 AM  13 years agoPost 2
gerard_nl

rrApprentice

eindhoven / the netherlands

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at the expense of quality................
youre gonna get some on this one i think.

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04-29-2004 08:52 AM  13 years agoPost 3
Parsifal

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Singapore

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Hahaha.. .yes... thats why i have my best flamesuit on....

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04-29-2004 09:17 AM  13 years agoPost 4
donlynn

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New Zealand

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Gidday

Rather than destroyed it maybe it was a wakeup call !!
now we know what a 50 has to be to survive ?
thank goodness I'm not struggling away with a nexus or shuttle !!


Got to be a great thing for the consumer.

Regards Don

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04-29-2004 09:34 AM  13 years agoPost 5
Peter65

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Roxby Downs, South Australia.

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Funny isn't it that a Raptor will do almost anything straight out the box. Where as the other require upgrades to match the performance out of the box.

I fail to see the lack of quality in the Raptors. So what if they are made of plastic. Atleast they will take a hammering that other machines wont stand up to and when it comes to cost of repair. I'll take the Raptor Challenge anytime.

These are quality machines at excellent prices. They were intended to aid Joe average to get into helis and as far as I'm aware the RC Heli hobby has taken off with the introduction of the Raptor line.

Laughing at yourself will lengthen your life. Laughing at me will shorten it...

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04-29-2004 09:52 AM  13 years agoPost 6
cootertwo

rrApprentice

Labelle Florida USA

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COMMON SENSE! DUH!
Buy a Harley or buy a Honda
Buy a Cadilac or buy a Kia
Buy an IBM or buy an Emachines
Buy Starbucks or make it yourself
and the list goes on and on

I have a Raptor 30V2 cause I'm not stupid rich. It will do more than I am capable of doing, and I thank Thunder Tiger for making it available to me.

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04-29-2004 09:53 AM  13 years agoPost 7
Temjin

rrApprentice

Walnut CA, HsinChu Taiwan

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I am satisify with Raptor's quality.....



Life is short. Offend as many people as you can. - Tom Leykis

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04-29-2004 09:55 AM  13 years agoPost 8
Parsifal

rrVeteran

Singapore

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I recognise that the raptor is a good machine if you are starting out. Although, that said, do you recall all the issues people were having with raptors when they first appeared in the V1 guise? Woof Poofs, etc?

in any case, the question is, with its introduction, other manufacturers who may have had superior products in the 30 to 50 range, have had to re-evaluate their positions in these segments as the price competition posed by TT is great. Manufacturers like Kyosho who used to produce a great machine the the form of the Concept series have all but exited the market entirely to focus on more profitable and popular avenues of business thus depriving us of their considerable engineering abilities.

This is such a small market segment that large manufacturers may have better ways to expend resources. I am not attacking the Raptor as a model exactly, what i saying is that its introduction, whilst beneficial in the short term, may have proven more damaging to the hobby at large because of its effects on other manufacturers priorities, that is to say, forcing them to focus on cost reduction first, as opposed to anything else...

Pars.

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04-29-2004 10:11 AM  13 years agoPost 9
Peter65

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Roxby Downs, South Australia.

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I don't agree sorry.

Raptors are an entry into the hobby otherwise there would not be so many of us.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but didnt the same guy who designed the concept also design the raptors? With that in mind don't you think they would have set out to build upon previous designs and make them better.

As far as the V1 issue goes. All the new brands have teething troubles.
Can anyone honestly tell me that the likes of the MA, Hirobo or Century did not cause headaches when they first hit the market.

This is a relative question. This also comes back to the technology of the day. When components were pressed as opposed to vacuum molded, laser cut or CNC'd from a single piece of material.

CAD/CAM has given us the best today at a reasonable price.

I also think that a lot of people after teething on the likes of the Raptors may very well head in the direction of MA, Century or even Hirobo later when they have learnt not to crash as often and have saved their $$.

Laughing at yourself will lengthen your life. Laughing at me will shorten it...

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04-29-2004 11:27 AM  13 years agoPost 10
blakka_1

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London/Enfield

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damage the hobby? wot u on about? its made the hobby grow. this hobby owes it to the raptor.

by the way, the raptor isnt just an entry into this hobby, the raptor will take you all the way into competition flying.

good dam, the SE isnt even out yet, when it comes out its gona dominate! then you'll have a problem with the raptor killing its competition in the 90 class league!

the reason why raptors are so popular and dominate the midsize market is not only because there cheap but because they are REAL 3D machines

if you just want a cheap heli to start with then a century hawk is what you should have sed, not a raptor.

why doesnt the century hawk dominate if its EVEN cheaper then the raptor? answer: because it cant take you all the way, the raptor can and already is taking people into competition flying.

soz 4 my moaning, im just really sick and tired of people going on about the raptors quality problems, yeah its no fury, but its a reliable machine that will give you years of success if its treated with care ( like all helis need )

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04-29-2004 11:51 AM  13 years agoPost 11
Mike99

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Canal Winchester, OH

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I must agree with Pete... the Rappy was my first choice "after" a used Century and a Concept 60. Those old machines (Ninja with a stacked frame) were difficult to understand and repair for a beginner. I almost gave up. Then I got a Rappy and "learned" from the ground up. Yes, I had one that woofed, and I was able to work through it. Being an engineer that is the part of the hobby I like.

Some on the other hand want an out of the box machine that is better and that is what you pay for "sometimes". Because we all know - sometimes the machines do not last as long as they are supposed to. That is why I stick with the Rappys. Cheap to fly, cheap to fix, and ok for my level of flying.

Besides i still have that olc C60 with the flapping head, waiting for that right scale project to come along.

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04-29-2004 12:18 PM  13 years agoPost 12
Minor Problem

rrApprentice

Isle of Wight, UK

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How can something that has brought thousands of newcomers into model heli flying be a bad thing? As for your 'Far Superior' other brands.. There aren't many and those that are, are substantially more expensive.

I have had Raptors since their introduction and have just bought a V2 50 and I was very impressed with the quality of the kit and fit of the parts. Much better than some I could mention.

No-one is telling you to buy one but digging at the best thing to happen to the hobby is plain mad.

A Raptor can and does take people from the very early stages to flat out 3D Masters, look out for Britflyer in the Experts class this year with an almost stock R50V2.

If the likes of Hirobo want to compete I suggest they dump that piece of cr4p that they have been pumping out for 37 years and design something that will get you further than a basic hover, that doesn't have 30 degrees of play in the control system and that doesn't wear out in the time it take you to walk out of the pits!

MP

James Bond doesn't have to put up with this sort of sh*t...

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04-29-2004 12:30 PM  13 years agoPost 13
bluefronted

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Pretoria, South Africa

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What a bull**** topic , all the raptor owners will vote no , since theres more raptors that have and are being sold , guess who will win

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04-29-2004 12:36 PM  13 years agoPost 14
mrNoodles

rrProfessor

Borlänge, Sweden

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No they havent!

/Fredrik
'Hm now I just have to find out where to connect the GV1 sensor to the Jazz80 ESC.

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04-29-2004 12:42 PM  13 years agoPost 15
davehour

rrElite Veteran

Guayama, Puerto Rico 00785

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What really brings competence in a certain aspect; is the number of competitors. We have a very good example of what a monopoly could be-Windows. In the past, there were only few heli manufactures and their prices were just that, way high. Now that TT is in the game, everything has changed.

I believe everyone should respect the decision of the others. Choose the brand you want and fly it. Let the others choose theirs and let them fly it.

Thank you very much.

David

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04-29-2004 12:50 PM  13 years agoPost 16
davehour

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Guayama, Puerto Rico 00785

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Hey Seneca:

I love your post.

Specially "If a product is "worth the money" why not charge for it"

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04-29-2004 01:02 PM  13 years agoPost 17
davehour

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Guayama, Puerto Rico 00785

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That always happens: People swearing by a product but can't resist to try the "other" at least once.

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04-29-2004 01:11 PM  13 years agoPost 18
davehour

rrElite Veteran

Guayama, Puerto Rico 00785

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No, I was referring to Mr. Seneca. As he pointed out, he had to tried the Raptor to see for himself what all the hipe was about.

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04-29-2004 01:14 PM  13 years agoPost 19
davehour

rrElite Veteran

Guayama, Puerto Rico 00785

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Buddykitchen:

Your posts have been very informative.

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04-29-2004 01:19 PM  13 years agoPost 20
davehour

rrElite Veteran

Guayama, Puerto Rico 00785

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Wao! Just saying "everybody" shows yours.

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Have Raptors Ruined the Midsize market??
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