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HelicopterComputer Flight SimulatorsReflex › REFLEX ??NOTHING FEALS REALISTIC
04-29-2004 03:41 AM  13 years agoPost 1
TSKguy

rrApprentice

Cary

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OK after messing around for a week trying to get a model to fly like mine I am almost ready to give up!!! Please someone explaine to me why this is. A great example is the Three Dee NT. I have flown helis long enough to now that no heli flys like that. It is SOOOO unrealistic.
The physics seem great but give me a break!!! I just want it to feel like my heli in real life. I have followed some peoples instructions on taming things down. But then it feels to sluggish but twitchy? Does someone have a model file that they can honestly say feels like a model the fly in real life?

HELP...
sorry for the rant

Obsessed and proud of it!!!

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04-29-2004 08:45 AM  13 years agoPost 2
G.Man

rrProfessor

Bristol

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All you need to do is tweak the model parameters...

Yes it takes some fiddling to get it exactly like your model...

As for the 3DNT it flies different to any other heli, thats why its unique...

very fast cyclic response, very axial roll's....

Don't Email me as I wont reply - PM Only (spam countermeasures)

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04-29-2004 09:07 AM  13 years agoPost 3
Reflex Products

rrVeteran

Elmshorn, Germany

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Especially the NT is a model that splits the community. 50% of my contacts love it, 50% hate it. The real problem is to get pilots flying an NT in a way it is designed for PLUS being able to communicate what is wrong.

There is one pilot in Germany who is flying an NT AND knows Reflex well enough to tweak it. Please contact info@higgy.de and ask him to send you his .PAR file.

If that won't help, let's start a dialogue:

Tell me what you do. (one manoever at a time)
Tell what it does on the sim.
Tell me what it SHOULD do on the field.

I will modify a few things and send you a new .PAR file. Let's repeat that until all your probs are solved.

That's the usual way how we improve our sim quality.

Cheers - wolfgang

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04-29-2004 12:04 PM  13 years agoPost 4
RotorX

rrKey Veteran

London

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Now thats is what you call support

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04-29-2004 01:56 PM  13 years agoPost 5
clearsky

rrApprentice

connecticut

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Well

The support sounds great,now to see if the problem gets solved.Will be following this closely.

Keep'um in sight

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04-29-2004 02:32 PM  13 years agoPost 6
TSKguy

rrApprentice

Cary

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Wow...

That is great support!

Wolfgang, I hope I am not insulting you in anyway. You have nothing but my respect. Reflex is a great piece of software engineering.

Here is what I have done so far.....
I downloaded the Jason Krause Fury Extreme. It flys ok but nothing like my fury flies....
Params I have changed......I do not have my software in front of me so I may get some names wrong...
I added 1 kg of wieght
changed the geering to 8.18 to 1
changed the engine rpm to 14800
changed the rotor rpm to 1850
I changed the hovoring stability to make it more stable...
changed the swash travel to 85%
I also changed some other params that I cant recall.
All of this has made things much better.... But what drives me batty is
the it seems to speed up in some manuvers, let me try and explaine....
Tick tocs are the way I notice it. I start and it seems to almost have way to much power. Then is just seems out of control either climbing radically or just zooming out. I hope that makes sence??

Any help would be great!!!!
Thanks to every one.
Eric

Obsessed and proud of it!!!

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04-29-2004 03:22 PM  13 years agoPost 7
Reflex Products

rrVeteran

Elmshorn, Germany

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Forget the insulting, Reflex grew from user input this way

First problem, but a minor one: We talk about 2 different kinds of models:

Models generated by the Reflex Team. These people do nothing else than that for quite some years now.

Models generated by our users. These are generated with entheusiasm and effort but in some cases, the final bit of understanding is missing to set the numbers right.

So in this case we are talking about a user model and from the way you are explaining it, I really can see where the problem is BUT this is a language problem more than an explanation problem.

The easiest way would be: please pack the .PAR and .MOD file in a ZIP. Record a flight that shows the problem and give me a short message about when the problem is obvious. Send all that stuff (ZIP + DMO file) to support@reflex-sim.de and I will SEE what you mean.

Cheers - wolfgang

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04-29-2004 03:31 PM  13 years agoPost 8
FlyinBrian

rrVeteran

USA

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Hi,

tskguy, I hope you get a better response then I did. I have moved on to aerofly pro which does better in the flying department but suffers some in the auto department, plus the plane 3d'n in afp is a lot better.

wsn, The transitional lift is too aggressive and/or the drag (or gravity effects) decreases as the model goes vertical (nose up, tail up, left side up or rite side up). I ended up selling my reflex simply because I could'nt get any response from you on the issue.....

All models have the same problem and I tried every parameter available to the user, several hours invloved in trying to fix the problem. The program is nice and I understand how much work you put into it, I've tried and could'nt get past the math required to do 3 dof rotations

Some examples, pull a simple loop from forward flight and it seems like there is a motor on front of the heli pulling it around the loop. Vertical 8's are efforless and vertical rolling 8's dont take much effort either.

Stationary rolls, screw up the collective even the slightest bit and get a little sideways movement and the model will really climb on you. It does happen in real life just seems extremely exagerated in the sim.

Tic tocs, even though the blades are not traveling paralell to the wind seems as though the model gains a lot of transitional lift. Feels like the weight of the model decreases.

Funnels & knifedge circles seem effortless to the heli and can be made as large as you like.

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04-29-2004 03:45 PM  13 years agoPost 9
TSKguy

rrApprentice

Cary

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I think Auger nailed on the head....

Wolfgang,
I will do what you asked and send it in......
On another note I really hope I can get it flying ok I love the way the sim
looks..
Eric

Obsessed and proud of it!!!

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04-29-2004 03:51 PM  13 years agoPost 10
Reflex Products

rrVeteran

Elmshorn, Germany

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Auger, do you still have the Reflex interface?

Cheers - wolfgang

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04-29-2004 04:16 PM  13 years agoPost 11
lozza6

rrVeteran

Sydney, Australia

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i thought reflex doesnt work without a reflex interface?

good luck to you guys, i hope you can get the physics right :-)

any comments on the raptor 50V2 (is there one?)

does it fly like the real think? let us know

Loz

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04-29-2004 06:14 PM  13 years agoPost 12
KenS

rrNovice

Wales, UK

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Sorry to crash in on this thread but I own all three of the 'top' simulators. Reflex, AFP and Realflight. My question is that out of all of them I find Reflex the most realistic but when I can't be bothered to get the TX out and want to use my dummy box, I find AFP totally unrealistic for heli flying and prefer RealFlight yet Auger states AFP is better in the flying department than Reflex, am I doing something wrong?

I don't mean its not to my liking, I mean ARP feels totally wrong and ridgid. I'm only using the supplied models so not any user created stuff nor am I anything more than a sports heli flyer.

Its not a PC issue since I have good hardware and get good FPS.

I'm not trying to slate AFP, I paid good money for the product and would like to get the most out of it and am confused when others state its very accurate, yet it really does feel the opposite to me. There doesn't seem to be many settings I can change, are there parameters for the models I should alter or any downloads which could improve the situation?

(Currently using Raptor model on AFP and just does not feel anything like a Raptor to me!)

Thanks

Ken.

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04-29-2004 06:17 PM  13 years agoPost 13
clearsky

rrApprentice

connecticut

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Very Interesting

This is the kind of dialogue that will be the decideing factor as to weather or not I purchase Reflex...

Keep'um in sight

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04-29-2004 07:10 PM  13 years agoPost 14
Yogi 1

rrApprentice

Clinton,CT USA

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I have very little programing experience on a PC but the main thing is to be sure you have enabled transmitter mixing in the menu. Then set up a seperate model for sim work. The best way I found to tailor the feel of the heli is to experiment changing the value of one feature at a time and try it. You have to have patence but with a little effort you will be rewarded with one awsome realistic flying model. The man who designed this sim program spent many hours not to leave out any possible feature which is just incredible. I am learning to hover inverted and the various other 3D moves and believe me when I say REFLEX is going to save me a ton of money on spare parts. Good Luck Yogi

Velocity Is A State Of Grace Get Some Now !

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04-29-2004 10:34 PM  13 years agoPost 15
FlyinBrian

rrVeteran

USA

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Hi,

wsn, I sold both the disc and interface but may be talked back into trying it again if the problems get fixed. The hovering is very good and the best I have seen so far, autos are pretty good, and you definitely give more parameters than afp but not as many as realflight, csm or ambrosia (I know the gfx sucked on the last two).

Probably the easiest manuever to see it on is the loops, from fff add in some collective and slowly pull aft cyclic and the model will literally shoot upwards and just keep going.

The basic feel is rite for the heli, its very close but there are a few minor issues.


kens,

It all depends on how much you push the model, how you set it up, how you fly it. Hovering and basic forward flight may be fine but stationary flips, tic tocs and big loops all have problems. I've owned all three and liked realflight untill I started upgrading the computer, on a p733 it flew pretty good on a p2400 it gained some tendencies you just could'nt gid rid of. Reflex has its pluses and so does afp for different flying styles.

The stock models will never be perfect for each person, everyone sets things up different so you do have to go tweak a little. If you handed me your tx at the field you probably would'nt like my comments and if I handed you mine I am sure you would state a few problems as well. All those minor issues can be dealt with via the tx or the parameters.

But all helis pretty much have the same fundmental tendencies, for example if I pull up into a stall turn 1,000 times in real life I know what to expect in reflex I pull up for a stall turn once and ask myself when is it going to stop. ......

The raptor 50 in reflex felt pretty good to me untill you started pushing for bigger loops, etc. Most of the models actually felt pretty good its just the way they react at certain times or orientations like the tic tocs.

In afp i ended up using the advanced controls and setting all the channels seperately, used pitch curves and idleups in the radio. I have'nt found a govenor feature in afp yet, added some expo to soften all the controlls, on and on. Afp may only list 7.8 degree of pitch in the settings but it felt more like 13 degrees to me, if it does'nt feel rite dont go by the #'s just decrease it and see how it feels. I had to make changes to reflex parameters to get them feeling rite also.

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04-29-2004 11:50 PM  13 years agoPost 16
MJA

rrKey Veteran

UK

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TSKguy,
Try the 3DNT version called Heckvoraus-NT.zip by Stephen Schwarzinger
from http://www.rc-sim.de

Martin

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04-30-2004 08:16 AM  13 years agoPost 17
G.Man

rrProfessor

Bristol

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The reason a lot of the models climb so hard in a loop is the params have been set too high for power and too low for weight...

This particularly affects the JK extreme...

Another param that is often wrong on the sim is the CofG point...

Many set this to be at the mainshaft when their models arent like that, at least not during an entire tank of fuel, reflex does not cope with the moving CofG...

Don't Email me as I wont reply - PM Only (spam countermeasures)

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04-30-2004 10:53 AM  13 years agoPost 18
Reesy

rrKey Veteran

In the doghouse ... Nottingham UK

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Interesting .. I tried exactly this with my Rap 50 (which isn't exactly underpowered)
With Reflex (Rap50) I try some simple flips and it shoots upwards ...using my rudimentary collective "management"

If I try the same move with my real 50 the thing had just about hit the ground by the 3rd flip

Paul

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04-30-2004 11:20 AM  13 years agoPost 19
Reflex Products

rrVeteran

Elmshorn, Germany

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I won't go for that. We are comparing apples with onions here. The 50C2 Tuning really is a hell of a machine, tuned to the bottom. If somebody is interested, I can provide the owner adress and HIS oppinion about the reproduction of his model in the Reflex. He is around here from time to time.

This rappie is far away from any kit version! The rotorhead is having different mechanics and angles. There are new rappy 50 v2 and 30V2 kit versions included in xtr which have a pretty normal setup. Try the same and you will see that they can't do that.

We all know that: Take 10 kits of a model, give it to 10 modellers, let them select the morors, pipes and servos and you end up with 10 different helicopters flying differently.I had a discussion latey with a US customer. He was arguing that his 60 trainer heli behaves differently than the ThreeDeeNT. It took me abt. 30 emails to convince him that the ThreeDee NT is NOT exatly a trainer model ...

Cheers - wolfgang

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04-30-2004 12:45 PM  13 years agoPost 20
Reesy

rrKey Veteran

In the doghouse ... Nottingham UK

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Hello Wolfgang
I'm not sure if I explained that very well .. OK I'd say that all the models I have downloaded from your site (the only ones I use Raptor50, 3DNT, logo10) ... SEEM ... to exhibit the same characteristic of climbing rapidly through flips and loops.

None of my 4 ic Heli's exhibit the same characteristic, they all tend to fall through the same manouvres..

And I don't think they can all be setup that far out?

Paul

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HelicopterComputer Flight SimulatorsReflex › REFLEX ??NOTHING FEALS REALISTIC
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