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Century Radikal E640 - Swift 16 NX
› MS044 HH Gyro Problems
04-29-2004 01:52 AM  13 years agoPost 1
arrowhead

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San Diego, CA

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I am having a difficult time with the MS044 gyro in HH mode. 90% of the time when I power it up and start to fly the tail hunts.

My setup is a Razor V2 / Phoenix 10 / 10 tooth gear, Pixie 7 / DD tail and obviously the MS044 gyro.
At first I was using 3S Etecs but dropped down to a 2S Etec because I think the 10 tooth gear gives too much torque with a 3S causing the tail to wag. Didn't help.

I tried adjusting the gain (I am using remote gain), delay, and limit options. Doesn't help.

The gyro works fine in rate mode.

Has anybody had any problems with the MS44 gyro?

Any suggestions before I return this thing?

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04-29-2004 02:29 AM  13 years agoPost 2
pbmax

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Olympia, WA - USA

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I found it a little harder to setup with the pixie7 than the GWS ICS-100 for some odd reason, but I still got the tail to hold. I just started using the pixie 7p shortly before I totaled my poor hb, so I'll have more information as soon as I get replacement parts (hopefully tomorrow!). I only flew it for maybe 10 minutes before the catestrophic frame damage.

It was holding great, no problems at all, with the GWS ICS-100. I don't know why the pixie didn't like it as much...had an awful time just getting the pixie armed right.

pbmax

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04-29-2004 03:15 AM  13 years agoPost 3
arrowhead

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San Diego, CA

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Hmm, funny I started off using the ICS-100 and thought the tail wag was caused by it, so I replaced it with a Pixie 7.

Are you using the remote gain? I havn't tried it w/o. Think I'll try that next.

Could there be any interference from the Phx10 or pixie7 causing my problem. I have the gyro mounted on the front of the frame and the ESCs are right under the mast by the elevation servo.

All the wires are wrapped up together. Maybe there is some interference in that mess.

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04-29-2004 02:04 PM  13 years agoPost 4
pbmax

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Olympia, WA - USA

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Nah, I don't think that's the issue. I had my ESCs taped to the elevator servo and all the wires wrapped together w/o any issues. And my gyro was in the same spot.

When I was running the gyro with the ICS-100, I wasn't using remote gain. After I put the pixie 7p in I also put a 6ch RX in and used remote gain. No replacement parts yet! Maybe today...

pbmax

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04-30-2004 05:43 AM  13 years agoPost 5
pbmax

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Olympia, WA - USA

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Got my frame and canopy in the mail today! I put the MS-044 back in and got everything running again. The tail holds fine as long as I don't gun it....high throttle change will result in loss of tail lock, so I may have some tuning yet to do. But as long as I keep my throttle movements smooth, it holds great.

I have the remote gain set at 75% on my eclipse 7. I think I need to monkey with the limit adjustment though...doesn't seem to be picking up as fast as it should.

I do remember that before I crashed it, I got a lot better tail lock with a 3s pack than the 2s pack I was just flying with.

Setup: Himax 2015-4100, Phoenix 10, Pixie 7p, Berg6, Deans micro antenna, MS-044 with remote gain hooked up, 2s 1200mah e-tec lipoly pack

Here's some pix of my equipment placement:

pbmax

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04-30-2004 08:31 AM  13 years agoPost 6
arrowhead

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San Diego, CA

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Going without the remote gain didn't make a difference.

So, I tried a few other things one of which was running the tail motor connected to the gyro by themselfs. I set the motor to a constant rpm on the transmitter. Held the gyro in place. In rate mode I could detect slight glitches in rpm, but in HH the glitches are even worse. When I would move the gyro CW or CCW in a slow consistant maner the rpm on the motor would follow smothly until I stopped moving the gyro. Then back to those glitches. Maybe the motor is getting bad? Don't have another to test (yet). Dispite the glitches in rate mode the bird still flys ok (most of the time) with plenty of rutter power so I can't really say the motor is dead.

I also made a stiffer mounting plate for the gyro. Mounting it directly to the frame didn't allow for much of a surface to mount potentially causing the gyro to be effected by vibrations during flight.

About the only thing that has helpped so far was to set the limit on the gyro to 50% so the pixie does not max out or (re)triger itself (I have the pixie set to fixed throttle, which allows its full throttle range to be between 0.25 and 0.75 of the transmitter throttle). To initially triger the pixie I power up the bird in HH mode. Wait a few seconds for the gyro to init. Then move the rutter all the way to the left until the esc is active.

Where do you have the delay set at? Right now I have it at ~20% but I think it should be at 0% or no delay due to the size of the heli. I have tried at 0% but it doesn't get rid of the problem ether.

In HH mode I've tried from 20% to 90% gain with what seems to be an improvment at about 25%. But most people have their gain set at around 75% so something is amiss. Rate mode remains at 50% gain.

How have you set up the options of both escs?

How does your bird in HH handle while hovering?

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04-30-2004 02:18 PM  13 years agoPost 7
pbmax

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Olympia, WA - USA

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Hrm, you're talking about delay and gain like they're two different things? My gain delay is set to 75%.

What kind of vibration insulator have you used to mount the gyro?

Both ESCs are setup with fixed throttle, tail with no cutoff, main with soft cutoff, no brake, and no spoolup delay.

HH is smooth as glass while hovering indoors. No wag, no hunting. I haven't tried it outdoors since I put it back together; I'm assuming it's a little loose, so I might have to increase the gain or just go with a 3s pack.

Yup, I arm the p7 the same way.

Do you have a picture of your mounting setup?

pbmax

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05-04-2004 08:45 AM  13 years agoPost 8
arrowhead

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San Diego, CA

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Ok, I figured out what was going on.

Before I installed the gyro I read all the info I could on the forums and came to the conclusion that around 75% gain is what is needed for good tail control. OK, so I set up the gyro to use the remote gain. Set my Tx so that it is at 75%.

Will, the one thing I had overlooked is that I had assumed that the 75% gain that people are using is actually 75% HH gain, not the actual value of the delay adjustment. So, the actual HH gain is 50%. Realizing that I was going in the wrong direction I started to reduce the HH gain untill there was no gain at all. I ended up settling at 10% HH gain or 55% setting on the delay dial (if not using remote gain).

If I crank it up any more the tail starts to hunt bad. BTW, I'm back to using 11V 3s batteries.

Its not glass while hovering, but its pretty good. When I change direction fast the tail sometimes hunts for a little bit.

Although I don't quite see the need for a delay. When the MS44 is using a remote gain the 'gain/delay' dial is used for some kind of delay. As per the manual. I expermented with it and it does indeed affect the way the tail locks. For me it seems better to have it set to zero.

I'll post some pix as soon as I can.

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05-04-2004 02:17 PM  13 years agoPost 9
pbmax

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Olympia, WA - USA

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Yup, I had similar results. Too much and it wags like crazy. You'll have a bit of tail movement with big speed changes because it's impossible for the tail thrust to change instantly, but as long as you're smooth with it, it should hold pretty well.

pbmax

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Century Radikal E640 - Swift 16 NX
› MS044 HH Gyro Problems
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