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HelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Duralite & Thin wires
04-27-2004 10:43 PM  13 years agoPost 1
Colibri

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The Netherlands

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I've been reading a lot about Duralite batteries. I'm looking for something that will not drop the voltage significantly when 5-8A peaks occur. I was thinking about a system with a Duralite voltage regulator and maybe even their $$$ battery pack but one thing that concerns me is the thin wires that are on both the battery and the regulator. Their regulator may be checked with a 10A load but what happens with the voltage when that current goes through the thin wire over a single connector to the receiver?

I currently use 2 wires to power my receiver and I put a thick wire on the battery (4 cell NiCad setup)

Am I being paranoid about these thin Duralite wires in combination with large currents (5-8A)

Tim

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04-28-2004 01:42 AM  13 years agoPost 2
Ace Dude

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USA

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What are you powering that's drawing 5-8A? If it's a typical heli radio setup (5 servos, gyro, governer) and you're drawing 5-8A (and none of your servos are binding) something is seriously wrong.

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04-28-2004 04:28 AM  13 years agoPost 3
AndyH

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Rockledge, FL

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You've got a good point! A heli with a full house of digitals, a governor, and a high end Gyro will easily draw 3 -4 amps in heavy use situations. I too am concerned about the wire size.

I guess it works though - Alan Szabo uses Duralite's and he wrigns it out! So I guess it's ok right?

I'm still concerned though.

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04-28-2004 06:58 AM  13 years agoPost 4
Colibri

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The Netherlands

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@Ace Dude im not drawing 5-8A continuously. I'm concerned about peaks during high load on multiple servo's. On the table I can easily reach 3-4A by resisting the movement of the servos just a little and moving both sticks in all directions.

People at our club have done in flight measurements and 8A spikes are possible. I'm not sure they didn't have binding of some sort though.

I'm going to use the JR 8511 into my next project and these are 15Kg servos and I think they can draw a lot of current, hence my concern.
I do not want my gyro or receiver resetting because the voltage became too low for a brief period.

Tim

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04-28-2004 04:42 PM  13 years agoPost 5
Rick_H

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Boulder City, Nevada

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tvhalter

If there were a problem with duralite's being used in any heli's you would be reading about it here on RR. The only problems I have read about here are a few who had corrosion problems with the connectors. You can do a search on that problem.

I am planning to get duralite's soon. Getting real tired of charging after a couple of flights.

Rick

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04-28-2004 04:51 PM  13 years agoPost 6
Saint728

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Honolulu, Hawaii

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It says on the Duralite website that the 5.1 voltage regulator is 7.5 amps.
Surface mounted components with full R F filters in and out for safe reliable use. Tested with a continuous 10 amp load.
Those thin wires will be able to handle almost anything you can give it, on a helicopter that is.

Take Care,
Cheers, Patrick

Check the hotties in my Gallery
http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/gallery/9019/?all=photo

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04-28-2004 05:02 PM  13 years agoPost 7
Colibri

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The Netherlands

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@ Rick_H I did a search on RR for problems with the wiring but I could not find any. That doesn't mean that this isn't an issue though. Most people are not aware of the potential danger of having resistance in the wiring anyway. I read a lot about the large currents the Duralite regulators can handle, they are even tested to about 10A.

Nobody talks about resistance. Even if there is as little resistance as 0.2 Ohm in the wiring it will cause a 2V voltage drop with a 10A spike. You don't want your gyro to get 4.8-2=2.4V for a brief period. I know 10A is a lot and the peaks will probably be lower but the resistance can very well be higher, especially with vibration and dirt hurting our flimsy connectors.

It is a serious issue with the servo's becoming stronger and stronger. Until not so long ago the 9252 was the servo to use but now we are going nuts with 10JKg or even 15Kg (JR8511) servos and it is time to be concerned because the current spikes will go up with them.

There is a reason that digital servos have thicker wires than their older analogue counterparts. And this wire only carries the current of one servo. So if there was a need to make the servo wires thicker by 30% just because it became digital, what is needed on the switch and battery wire since they carry the combined current of all your gear together.

Tim

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04-28-2004 05:06 PM  13 years agoPost 8
Colibri

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The Netherlands

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@ Saint728
Those thin wires will be able to handle almost anything you can give it, on a helicopter that is.
There is no doubt in my mind that the wires will survive. They will not melt. And the regulator will not fail either. So the complete product will not fail except that before the current reaches our receiver/gyro it will be at a lower voltage. This is of no harm to the Duralite product itself. But this is not my issue.

Tim

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04-28-2004 05:13 PM  13 years agoPost 9
Colibri

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The Netherlands

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By the way, I'm thinking of buying the Duralite product. I'm currently emailing with them about my wire concerns to see what they think and if they can provide thicker wires. So I'm not bashing Duralite, I'm investigating the problems I think I may have and I hope to get some technical insight from others on this.

Tim

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04-28-2004 05:48 PM  13 years agoPost 10
Alan Szabo Jr

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Las Vegas, Nevada

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I run the 4000mah battery pack. Using Airtronics standard switch and 4ea 758"s servos drawing aprox 330 ma ea. at idle. That's 1.3 amps not counting gyro, gyro servo and gov. I have never had a problem with any wires showing any insulation damage due to excessive heat / current draw.

Alan Szabo Jr.

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04-29-2004 04:19 AM  13 years agoPost 11
Rick_H

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Boulder City, Nevada

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tvhalter

If you read this thread they mention a green corrosion issue. But it sounds like an isolated problem. I will fly with them but I would keep an eye out for any corrosion.

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/gallery/5766/

Rick

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04-30-2004 01:46 PM  13 years agoPost 12
EChapkis

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Tampa, FL

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Wires

22 gauge wire is good for up to 5 amp peaking loads. After that, they will degrade and melt. Current loss is the big reason for better wiring.

I have replaced my battery leads with 18 gauge wire. This wire I am told is good for up through 10 amp or higher peaking. Not expensive either.

Evan Chapkis Tampa, Florida

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04-30-2004 07:57 PM  13 years agoPost 13
Colibri

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The Netherlands

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Yesterday I've asked Duralite if they can provide 18 gauge wire. I've looked up the typical voltage drop on 22 and 18 gauge wire with a 7A peak (about the maximum spec of the regulator) and this is the result.

1 foot long coper wire, 7A
22 gauge -> 0.3 Volt drop
18 gauge -> 0.1 Volt drop.

This is the voltage drop over the copper wire only. In real life there are also connectors, regulator PCB and receiver PCB resistance to deal with.

22 gauge is the standard wire thickness of the Duralite product. I hope they will tell me they can add thicker wires. If they do I'm a new customer because all other specs are exectly what we need with those heavy servos.

Tim

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04-30-2004 11:08 PM  13 years agoPost 14
Ben-T-Spindle

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Central Illinois

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There are a lot of LiPo batteries on the market that are much better than Duralite. I use the newer high current batteries like TP or Tanic and Radio South regulators. Much more for your money.

... BTS

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05-01-2004 09:31 PM  13 years agoPost 15
EChapkis

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Tampa, FL

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Lipo / li-ion

Ben,

Keep in mind that application that the Duralite lipo or ions are being used as. As rx packs, they do not need to have high C ratings.

I would look at the quality of the cells from a # cycles stand point.

FYI...

I have 2 2S2P-2400's that I had the safety circuitry added from my assembler. To be on the safe side, I decided to put the pack in my kids trainer (plank) to test. Glad I did.

Turns out, I dropped a cell or 1/2 the pack and it is registering only 1 cell. Pulled out the 2nd pack and it is charging as I type. Hope to get some test flights in soon. I am using my own regulator which has the same specs as the Radio South (same manufacturer), except I had the regulator set to 5.2 Volts.

The new pack is at 8.42 volts on the Triton, charging at .5 amps and 627 mah has been input. Should be done soon.

Evan Chapkis Tampa, Florida

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05-02-2004 12:48 AM  13 years agoPost 16
Ben-T-Spindle

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Central Illinois

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If you use digital servos you need LiPo cells with a High C rating because they have lower internal resistance and will not loose much voltage when they encounter the high current spikes produced by digital servos. There have been gyro problems and crashes related to this problem. That’s why I use the best LiPo’s I can find – cheaper than a new helicopter.

You should also use a regulator with a fail-safe switch – like the Radio South ones. The main current does not go through the switch. When the mechanical switch is closed the electronic switch is off thus making it a fail-on circuit.

Rick’s has more information on this problem.
http://www.ronlund.com/index.html

... BTS

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05-02-2004 02:15 AM  13 years agoPost 17
raptorhelis

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utah

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check out microlitesystems. they explaine everything out batteries and wire and everything else. they also have really good prices on batteries, regulators, quick lithium cahrgers.www.microlitesystems.com

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05-02-2004 06:54 AM  13 years agoPost 18
Colibri

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The Netherlands

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Thanks raptorhelis, some nice reading material there. Below is a small quote from their website. Maybe people will take this serious now.
One big thing we noticed while testing our products is the big loss of power across those little wires, small connectors, and running everything through the radio. It doesn't make sense to use a 22-24 gauge wire and a 1 Amp rated connector to run from the battery to the radio when you are drawing up to 3 Amps continuous. The average voltage drop across this setup is 0.30 Volts to 0.90 Volts, the max voltage drop was 11 Volts at 6 Amps.
Tim

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HelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Duralite & Thin wires
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