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04-29-2004 04:18 PM  13 years agoPost 21
Bonsai

rrApprentice

Bacolod, Philippines

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We are still fighting this also....one day it works great and the next day we get poor range..today its working fine....But it sure dont give us a warm fuzzy feeling....I think the next thing we are gonna try is to install a duralite system and see if running at 5.1v helps this range problem...We sure could use some help over here....on this subject.....I thought that we had it beat.... Sorry to hear about your tempest...Im test flying mine now and Im really gun shy as Im having trouble with the 401....And I think its power related also... it wont lock the tail very good and it acts like a rate gyro sometimes....and it turns better one direction then the other and not a small amount.....
Dean

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04-29-2004 04:23 PM  13 years agoPost 22
Greg McFadden

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Richland, WA

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have you tried completely bypassing the switch and flying that way (bit more of a PAIN but it might help. another thing to try is run power leads to both ends of the reciever, that way if the traces on the reciever are causing your voltage drop from the battery lead all the way to the far side you can provide two current paths in. Another thing to try would be a CP2400 nicad pack, yes they are heavy but they are damn near bullet proof.

The silence often, of pure innocence persuades, when speaking fails

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04-29-2004 05:57 PM  13 years agoPost 23
Bonsai

rrApprentice

Bacolod, Philippines

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greg.How do you run power leads on both sides of the rx????Im using a JR 900S rx????

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04-29-2004 06:06 PM  13 years agoPost 24
Greg McFadden

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Richland, WA

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you have to put one of the servos on a Y harness and have two leads coming from the battery pack.

The silence often, of pure innocence persuades, when speaking fails

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04-29-2004 06:12 PM  13 years agoPost 25
Bonsai

rrApprentice

Bacolod, Philippines

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can I install a second batterypack of the same size on a switch connected to the Y cord and say the throttle servo? will this apply power to both sides??
Dean

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04-29-2004 06:15 PM  13 years agoPost 26
Greg McFadden

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Richland, WA

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should work ok, (I don't know the layout of a JR Rx) I just wish that there was an inexpensive voltage monitor that would record the voltage seen on the bus over the entire course of the flight. it would make diagnosing power problems soo much easier.

The silence often, of pure innocence persuades, when speaking fails

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04-29-2004 06:18 PM  13 years agoPost 27
Bonsai

rrApprentice

Bacolod, Philippines

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Well Im installing the second pack now and a second switch... I will have to make up a Y cord but thats not hard to do..I'll let you know if it works or not..
Dean

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04-29-2004 06:46 PM  13 years agoPost 28
Bonsai

rrApprentice

Bacolod, Philippines

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OK Greg.... I have the second battery in and the switch and I made a y harness..... It seems to work I dont know what going on inside the rx but if I leave the regular switch off and turn the added switch on the ship seems to work just fine..when I turn the original switch on I cant tell any diffrence...with it on i turned the added switch off and it still works soooooo I conclued that its working...now does this increase the voltage any ??? or it just gives me power 4.8 from 2 sources..like a backup. Any precautions???Dean

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04-29-2004 10:51 PM  13 years agoPost 29
Greg McFadden

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Richland, WA

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basically, the idea is that in the RARE instance where the traces on the RX might not be up to snuff when you are pulling a lot of current, you will get enough of a voltage drop between inlet and the last servo to notice wierdness. by putting a power jack at both ends you end up reducing the maximum voltage drop that any servo can see... No load voltage at both ends will be identical, as the packs are in parallel. when you start drawing current there will be some deviation (not much at all) based on variations in the packs themselves.

have you tried flying it just bypassing the switch entirely? I have seen more than a few instances where a switch was the cause of some radio wierdness.

if it is still driving you nuts, try a different frequency (borrow a buddy's module) and see if it still happens. you may just be unlucky and have interference on the channel you fly on.

The silence often, of pure innocence persuades, when speaking fails

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04-30-2004 10:39 AM  13 years agoPost 30
Bonsai

rrApprentice

Bacolod, Philippines

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Greg

Boy did I screw this one up..Its never nice to tell on yourself... I got out to the field and decided to fast charge both batteries to make sure that all the current and power was as even as I could make it... I then stuffed both leads back into the canopy and fired my new Tempest up. She was running real smooth so I jammed the power to her and she ran uphill like a billy goat with its ass on fire... I then pulled the nose veritcal and slammed it around a half funnel and then into a backward loop... all of a sudden the tail twiched real hard so I came running back for the deck.. as soon as I set it down in idle up one no less, the radio quite completely...... so here she sits screaming with neg pitch on ..... and I have no control.....all I can do is wait for the damn thing to run out of fuel..and Im scared as I dont know what caused it to lock and if its just gonna sit there or twich again and roll over... One thing for sure Im not going near it and I wont let any one else..Yes I landed well away from the pits .....as should be for safety reasons when you got a problem.....well it finaly quit and I walked out there and all most dumped a load right there..the charging plugs from both switches had been eatin by the FAN and were shorted out ...my Batteries were smokin hot and all the switch wires were melted together..The rubber that I used to wrap the batteried was burnt... Yhea I was luck ....This was my fault for not securing the leads properly ... No damage done to the RX as I replaced the switch and installed a new 1900mah battery and did the range checks and have flown it......BOY do I get the DUMB ass award or what......I dont have another spare battery pack to try this with again but with the new switch and the new battery my 401 is acting normaly...
Dean
Bone head of the Day Winner

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04-30-2004 02:12 PM  13 years agoPost 31
Greg McFadden

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Richland, WA

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if you want to go with a non-mechanical switch, I suggest you check out the http://www.fromeco.org reliaswiitches, available from arizona heli also.
I've been using them for about a year and a half now give or take and I like them

The silence often, of pure innocence persuades, when speaking fails

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05-01-2004 07:06 PM  13 years agoPost 32
lfalsetto

rrKey Veteran

COLORADO

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Bonsai,
Glad to hear the heli is safe. Have you tried flying it again? I was wondering if the power problem was resolved. Just curiosity, what are flying fields in Kawait like?

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05-02-2004 05:13 PM  13 years agoPost 33
Bonsai

rrApprentice

Bacolod, Philippines

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Since I MADE my big bonehead move I have not done the dual battery trick again as I dont have any batteries left.hehehe..Jasim did try it and he did not get any range so it was a waste of time for him....but I have flown my heli since and it looks like I fried my 401 as I cant get it to hold at all...still trouble shooting that one..second I couldnt get my govn to work at all..but I just located that problem...it seems that one of the zip ties has been rattling around on the wires and chaffed small spots in all 3 wires so that only when the engine is running they short out..on the ground it calibrates and works just fine...so I will be fixing that tonight and trying it tomarrow... There is plenty of open space to fly here in Kuwait..all Desert... We fly off of carpets and try not to land in the sand... if you do that just means a few more hours of cleaning... but what else do we have to do here.hehehe..I Love it here good flying weather most of the time..its just now starting to get get hot...Lasst night they had a hail storm about a mile down the road from me...they call it snow..hehehe...that dont happen very often...Jasim told me that it happened 3 years ago...
Dean

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05-02-2004 07:24 PM  13 years agoPost 34
trickydicky

rrNovice

Hamburg-Germany

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@ Derek:

Had the same bad luck, but I had it twice!
The first time I thought a stuck pitch-slider on the tail was the problem, so I fixed the machine and in the very first flight after restoration I had the same problem again.
It starts with a 'spongy' tail, then all the servos do what they want or the
receiver locks.
Changed battery, switch, receiver, quarz.
Is it possible the 401 can cause this sort of trouble?

Dick

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05-02-2004 11:21 PM  13 years agoPost 35
derekandjennys

rrApprentice

Cedar Rapids, IA

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What seems important is the similarity of the tail acting funny before the lock out.

How would low voltage make the tail work great one way and not the other?

One thing is I use the same setup on my Freya with all 5 digitals and 1650 nimh pack but the Fury is CCPM and I went from 401 to 601 and added the Throttle Jockey to both over the winter. Not even given a chance to do final set up on it.

If failsafe is set up right, it would not allow the TJ to maintain speed, right?

Derek

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05-03-2004 12:57 AM  13 years agoPost 36
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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derekandjennys

Are you running a two piece Deans whip? In the event that you or anyone is using a two piece Deans whip, please don't locktite the antenna to the base. You will have absolutely no range. Use the small piece of shrink that comes with the antenna.

FWIW, NIMH's don't respond well under load. Put a DVM on the system and see how much of a voltage drop you have under load. This will clue you in as to how well your battery is able to support your system.

Most of the switches have enough capacity to handle digitals, if you don't believe your switch is working just bypass the switch and plug the battery directly into the RX. Heavy duty switches are preferable to normal duty, usually due to bigger contacts.

This whole thread sounds like a voltage issue. Any additional information would help.

Terry

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05-03-2004 04:20 AM  13 years agoPost 37
derekandjennys

rrApprentice

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Terry

I am thinking the same. Like I was saying I have the same setup on the Freya with good success for some time now. But with the ccpm and added draw of TJ Pro and the throttle servo binding a little, is that going to do it on a fresh and new pack? When you bind them it does drop quite a bit. It still reads 5 volts with whatever draw is on those expanded scale voltmeters. Maybe something should be added to show a larger draw than what a 40 size plane might have?

The antenna on the freya is the 2 piece where I initially worried that because I could not loctite, it may come loose but it is angled back and stays well. On the fury, it is the one piece stuck to the tank bottom angled up the last couple inches.

What would you think about going to the Hydrimax Sanyo 1650 6 volt pack with a regulator?

Derek

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05-03-2004 05:41 AM  13 years agoPost 38
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Derek,

I personally use Nicads, 5 cell packs and the only time I use a regulator is with stuff that won't tolerate 6 volts. Airtronics and CSM handle 5 cell packs with ease. Any binding, anywhere will cause a problem. Work all the servos simultaneously with a DVM monitoring the battery and note the voltage. It is easy to get the voltage down very low. NIMH's don't recover like Nicads will.

Read the info on SR's website concerning NIMH's. I would double the capacity of my batteries in this regard running NIMH's. If you are running all digitals with CCPM you have a large potential current draw and if there is any binding the servo amplifier is going to try and hold the commanded position come hell or high water and you have a huge current draw then. The heat generated by the motor and the amp takes an incredible toll on the servo weakening the entire mechanism.

I see no reason to run digitals on throttle. I am using hi speed analogs on the CCPM section and throttle in my CAL 30 and this is working out well.

I have a feeling that when digitals first hit the market that no one envisioned the battery draw issue, along with the governors, gyros, and the older design switches among other things.

Never use loctite on a two piece Dean's. This is a recipe for disaster. There is a little length of shrink tube that is used to lock the screw on antenna in place.

Terry

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05-03-2004 12:51 PM  13 years agoPost 39
Bonsai

rrApprentice

Bacolod, Philippines

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Ok heres some more information....I am using a JR 1900mah pack. 4..9252 servo's yes one on the throttle because I'm using the TJ Pro..and a 9253 with a GY401on the tailrotor..... I have used a whip ant in the past and almost lost my extreme because it lost range..I now only run the original ant's period...Yhea they dont look good........BUT I have the range I want....... I have spent hours ensuring that I have ZERO binds and that everything is as smooth and as free as humanly possible.. I found the trouble last night with my Govn not working properly....On the BENCH it worked perfect calibrated good signal from magnet....but in the air it wouldnt work or it would kick in and out....well I took the sensor apart lastnight and found that oneof the zip tie's had vibrated and chaffed small holes in all 3 wires....ghee no wonder it didnt work right.... Now to find the reason that my 401 wont hold heading at all.....Jasim and I are both going crazy trying to figure out why he has no range...we installed 2 1800 mah packs and still no range..... but the system works great in his voyager electric...we are just out of idea's we thought it was gonna be a voltage problem but now we dont really know....
Dean

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05-03-2004 04:35 PM  13 years agoPost 40
Bonsai

rrApprentice

Bacolod, Philippines

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Jasim got 2 good flights in today befor the weather turned south on us...what did he change???? Well he went for 40 megs to 72 megs and its working fine???? Good range and everything... Time will tell if this was the problem or not but it looks promising....???????????
Dean

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