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HelicopterThunder TigerOther › Carbon CCPM frame for R30
06-04-2004 11:08 PM  13 years agoPost 321
blade3d

rrElite Veteran

New Jersey USA

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In any case I think what everyone is saying if you had set it up right and made sure it was sucure ( and I believe because we all fly heli's we all know when something is not secure what happens ) you would not have crashed,,human error.

Blade3d

Rupert

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06-04-2004 11:09 PM  13 years agoPost 322
BOONY

rrApprentice

lancashire UK

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$300 for a set of carbon side frames you would be ill if you crashed that those frames wouldnt stand a chance

Remember crashing is stupid and you could end up crying in front of your friends!

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06-04-2004 11:46 PM  13 years agoPost 323
gordon

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Isle of Wight UK

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What ever I know it was put together right and did spend a lot of time doing it.
Boony
$300 for a set of carbon frames I was not ill I wanted to know why . Xero G have said they will replace the top frames that broke. I will also say that the frames took the crash well the only damage was done to the top frames where the canopy mounts.If I had not used Quick UK alloy mounts but used the standard TT plastic ones the frames might not have broke at all.I would not have got away with such little damage if it was the standard V2 that crashed the down side of having a high head speed. The frames are very strong I think I posted this a while ago but the frames are stronger than my Vigor CS . I have now done the mod to my bellcrank I do not have the tube any more I have a push rod the same as the other 2 connections to the swash plate so I can now see all the link and know it is fixed. Please no more flack I have done this to my heli I am NOT telling you to do the same to your's
Are the frames worth it ? depends on how you look at it Galifrey you had a good flight report for yours but have you flown the two Raptors back to back same spec I have for a short time with basic settings I admit . Mine fly the same may be the carbon had the edge as my V2 has some play in the bell cranks but the Quick UK head does the work on both heli's.I don't think there is a gain in performance between the two but the gain I am hoping will be wear hours in the air with no rebuilds no having to take it apart to fit new frames due to wear. Other than that there is one more gain it looks the dog's you know what's
Would I do it again yes but I would sooner buy a complete heli from Xero G the workman ship is as good as Quick UK and that is saying something.

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06-05-2004 05:51 AM  13 years agoPost 324
ScotY

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USA

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What you guys all missed is that Gordon used RED LOCTITE on the bolt that goes into the ball link! It's a known fact that you NEVER want to use loctite on plastic as it makes it soft! That, possibly, combined with overtightening/stripping of the plastic link, is the reason it pulled out.

It sucks, but the helicopter was NOT assembled properly. I am sorry, Gordon, to have to say this, but you should apologize to Mr. XeroG for your negative comments re. his frame kit. And then, thank him profusely for replacing your parts at no charge.

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06-05-2004 06:57 AM  13 years agoPost 325
dttheliman

rrNovice

Manchester - The original one

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Scoty you say: < for the curious, I am not using the stock rotor head nor a metal version of one. Take your pick, nearly any 10mm rotor head should work. This is done at YOUR OWN RISK. Custom length main shaft, long boom (off an Ergo 60), long belt.>

Even curiouser! more questions - are you using the standard raptor one-way clutch and auto rotation hub ? which belt are you using and are you using the standard Raptor tail components ? . This sounds like the project for my second chassis,


Later
Tim

Is anyone normal.....?

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06-05-2004 08:05 AM  13 years agoPost 326
ScotY

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USA

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Is "curiouser" even a real word? I should have said "any 60 sized or better 10mm rotor head" should be usable.

I'm using the stock V2 auto hub/one way and stock tail parts. I do plan to adapt a JR metal tail gearbox to it, one of these days. I need to find a way to space the stock tail pulley in the gearbox. The JR tail pulley is much wider than the TT red plastic pulley. I'm using a 770XL tail belt which makes the boom approximately 5" longer. My feeling is the stock tail parts are going to be marginal in this situation. Also, the Ergo 60 boom is not the best as it has cutouts on each end...would be better if they weren't there.

Before you get too excited about your new project, keep in mind you'll end up real tail heavy unless you compensate for the long boom.

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06-05-2004 03:08 PM  13 years agoPost 327
gordon

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Isle of Wight UK

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Scoty
I have to say I did not know about the Red loctite making the plastic soft I better put a big order in for new ball links as I have done this for years and all my heli's have this done to them.
Has anyone else heard of this ?
I have just had a private E mail from Xero G and they have been very good about this.
They also said the reason they did not make a full kit as it would come out at about $579 for a full heli kit.
I don't know about all of you but my reply was if the quality of the kit was the same as the frames I would buy one and I think most of you would as it is still a very cheap kit for what you would get works out to about £350

Would it be good if they got together with Quick UK and made the full kit I would pay £500 for it

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06-05-2004 03:12 PM  13 years agoPost 328
G.Man

rrProfessor

Bristol

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EEEK

Red loctite into plastic... yes good spot, that would just allow the bolt to pull the threads out of the ball link like I said in my previous post..

I have not done a back to back, but I did gain 10 points of gyro gain on the carbon frames and a good increase in overall pitch range which allowed me to get +/- 10 degrees in 3d setup and +/-12 degrees in throttle hold.. cool for an inverted auto freak... I could have set it for -10 to +14 in throttle hold but i suspected some serious blade stall at +14

I couldnt say whether the frame kit is worthwhile to all purchasers, what I can say is it does what it says on the box, reduces weight (slightly) stiffens the structure (one hell of a lot), improves the pitch range (enough to make it useful), gives a better collective response, (noticeable to me) and looks just so darn cool...

I am happy with mine, it makes me wonder if I will ever need another heli tbh...

Think I might just sell my others and get another

Don't Email me as I wont reply - PM Only (spam countermeasures)

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06-05-2004 03:35 PM  13 years agoPost 329
gordon

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Isle of Wight UK

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But would you buy a full kit ?
I would

Quick UK Have done it again I ordered the part's needed yesterday 3pm all the part's are here today
Thanks Bud

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06-06-2004 08:18 AM  13 years agoPost 330
ScotY

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USA

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Hi Gordon,

Well, maybe you better go out and order a case of ball links then! Take a look here...scroll down towards the bottom of the document to the FAQs:
http://www.loctite.com/int_henkel/l...readlocking.pdf

Softening or stress cracks in plastic are possible if Loctite is used. There is one type of threadlocker made by Tamiya that is plastic-safe but there's really no need for any on plastic.

If you can bear it, I'd like to see a picture of the carnage. From the sounds of it, it's pretty darned tough if all you crinkled was the canopy mounts. It might be a good idea to replace the bolts that hold the standoffs to nylon. That way, they will shear off in a crash rather than break something.

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06-06-2004 09:53 AM  13 years agoPost 331
gordon

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Isle of Wight UK

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I have to say I really did not know and have been doing it since flying heli's once I have a set up or links that I don't want to come apart. This is the first failure I have had
I have already replaced all the links on the Raptors and will do the Vigor and Mille tonight. Mind the Rocket links I got from Quick UK yesterday are really tight.
I did not take any photos of the carnage as you put it but I am going to take a photo of the boom and put it up. It was not till yesterday when I took the old boom off that I found how bad it was. It was just slightly off to the left as you looked at it on the heli. But between the mounting blocks it was well out of shape so bad that I had to take all the parts off from the tail end. The frames must have been under so much strain to bend that much and not brake well I just can not see why they did not
I had to cut the head spindle to get it out that is how hard it hit.The frames took one hell of a bang and by rights should have just broke up but as I said the only damage is just in front of the canopy mounts both sides even then they did not brake right out just cracked.
10 out of 10 for Xero G for strength and10 out of ten for back up as they have said they will replace the frames any way.
One thing that I did notice when working on the heli I put braid over all my servo wires except one the tail as it is a temp will not go into what happened to the right one. There was chafing on the wire in a few places where I had used cable ties.I think it might be worth braiding all wires or going round the frames taking the edges off .

What do you think on the idea of them making a full heli kit ?
I don't know how the price would work out over your way but it would be cheap here as far as kit's go.

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06-06-2004 10:42 AM  13 years agoPost 332
ScotY

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USA

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Hi Gordon,

Most people, or at least the old timers , would meticulously sand all the sharp edges of the carbon and seal with some CA or similar, before assembling the frames. I'm very lazy and just choose to carefully protect all the wires from chafing. The sharp edges on the carbon will quickly cut through wire insulation in a hurry! Zip ties are also notorious for cutting through wires. I try to minimize the use of zip ties as, in the event of a crash, very secure wires will rip out of components. I'd rather the wire pulled out of whatever it's connected to than rip out.

Glad to hear the frame set is very robust! That's a good thing in my book.

Full kit? I can't see XeroG doing one since, as you are well familiar, Quick UK already has all the good stuff to go along with the carbon frames. A full kit would, at least the easiest way around, would just be a XeroG carbon frame kit and a whole bunch of Quick UK parts. Hey, business opportunity for you...you could buy in bulk, repackage, and market a full kit for those with less energy than you! I certainly give you much credit for compiling all your parts. I've been there and it's exhausting just to have to figure out where to order this, and where to order that, spend time on the phone or internet ordering, etc.

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06-06-2004 02:59 PM  13 years agoPost 333
gordon

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Isle of Wight UK

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I have not had a lot to do with carbon frames apart from the Mille and Vigor they have been fine. I know what you mean about wires ripping out I like to try and get a fold in the wire between 2 ties so it has some slack to pull out before ripping the wires out.But touch wood this is the only crash I have had in over a year last one was the V2 when the canopy caught the swash plate.
I have to repeat it the frames should have been toast we did not spot the cracks till later that night but it does seem as if they bent to absorb the impact just does not make any sense how they are in such good shape.10 out of 10

As for the full Kit how good would it be if Quick UK and Xero G got together and made it god what a heli that would be. I would sell my others and just run two of the new ones the part's back up would be the best.
The hardest part about building my heli was getting the TT part's all the Quick UK gear was here the next day and at a good discount the Extreme fins took the longest to come and still have not got the Futaba GV1 parts.
All the part's came from Bob at Skyline and Bud at Quick UK.
So the hardest part was waiting for it all to show up while you where all flying it was so tempting to take some parts of the V2 but I wanted to be able to compare them..

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06-06-2004 09:00 PM  13 years agoPost 334
DOKEY

rrProfessor

Northamptonshire UK

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Well I managed to finally get mine dialed in today and plenty of stick time on it aswell
(after having 2 weeks of gyro problems on it, nothing to do with the mechanics though)

All I can say is that I'm more than impressed with it, and so far I cant feel any interaction in flight atall. (so far!!!)
Being ccpm and using the hard dampers+9252's, it makes it feel so positive and responsive, but without the twichyness.

Nice job XeroG, one happy (No faulty parts ) customer

Ryan.

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06-07-2004 02:03 PM  13 years agoPost 335
gordon

rrApprentice

Isle of Wight UK

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How could the frames survive this sort of impact ?

The boom has NO other damage just this part that was in the frames.
the shaft had to be cut to get it out.
Strong frames or what.
Now waiting for TT part's again

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06-07-2004 02:11 PM  13 years agoPost 336
DOKEY

rrProfessor

Northamptonshire UK

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Have you checked to see if there isnt any twist in the frames ? after such an impact it may have slightly bent some of the frame spaces and now be adding stress or bowing the frames slightly.

Just to mention incase you havent checked, but im sure you already have

Nice spindle though

Ryan.

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06-07-2004 02:30 PM  13 years agoPost 337
gordon

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Isle of Wight UK

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I tell you they are as new apart from the two cracks at the canopy mounts one each side the rest is perfect .Just look at the end of the boom how far did the frames have to move to do that ? Then come back straight as it is with out the new frames it could still be flown. I will not because of the possible radio interference from the cracks. I am sure the standard frames would not put up with it and I don't know how these did we did not see the boom damage till that night it was all inside the frames.I think strong has to be a understatement or should I say strong and flexible ?

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06-07-2004 05:18 PM  13 years agoPost 338
gordon

rrApprentice

Isle of Wight UK

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That is not the start shaft it is the head spindle I have had a few bend but not a Quick UK one and have to cut it to get it out of the head

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06-09-2004 09:24 AM  13 years agoPost 339
blade3d

rrElite Veteran

New Jersey USA

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Is the Quick UK spindle as large as the RV2 30/50 spimdle ?

Blade3d

Rupert

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06-09-2004 01:53 PM  13 years agoPost 340
gordon

rrApprentice

Isle of Wight UK

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It was bad the way it went in just kept doing back flips till it hit the ground I had shut the engine off as soon as I lost it. The skids have bust the shock even popped the carbon tail control rod out alloy end you could say it hit very hard. But the frames took it I just can not see how but they did so they pass the strength test the silly part is both top frames have gone just in front of the canopy mounts. The head spindle is the Quick UK stainless V2 one. The Quick UK head had no damage but most of the ball links had split even the gyro had come off it's mount.
I came out lucky with the radio no damage the engine should be OK as it was still ticking over after the crash.

Good new's I hope from Quick UK they might be making a complete tail for the Raptor next month long over due

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HelicopterThunder TigerOther › Carbon CCPM frame for R30
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