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HelicopterThunder TigerOther › Carbon CCPM frame for R30
06-04-2004 03:41 AM  13 years agoPost 301
ScotY

rrApprentice

USA

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Gordon,

Sorry to hear of your crash. I don't see how the ball link could pull out of the elevator arm. It's not like the ball link just screws into a tube, there's a bolt that screws into the ball link (from the bottom, through the tube)and the body of the link is surrounded by the tube. I can't see how that would be any less secure than an ordinary pushrod? If anything, it should make it more secure.

Install tip to anyone building a XeroG frame set...it's easier (and probably better) when installing the ball link, to hold the link and tighten the bolt. This will pull the link into the elevator arm snugly and securely. It will also "shave" off the Thunder Tiger lettering on the outside of the link. If you hold the bolt and try to twist/tighten the ball link, it will be much more difficult to install and you may not be able to get the link all the way into the tube on the elevator arm.

I've been flying my carbon frame set with absolutely NO problems to date and I'm now running 680mm blades with spritely performance. I'm a happy camper.

Just a suggestion...since you seem to have a lot of "bad luck," it might be a good idea to get a decent digital camera. Then, if you have any problems or issues, you can post some pics for others to see. Then, you'll be more certain that you're getting good advice. It's hard to offer suggestions when I, or anyone else, can't see what you're talking about.

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06-04-2004 01:00 PM  13 years agoPost 302
dttheliman

rrNovice

Manchester - The original one

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Gordon, Sorry to hear about your smash , hope it s not to bad,

Scoty,

You are running 680's on a .50? you must be just about over hanging the tail rotor ? please show + tell more. Reason is I got a pair of CF 620's from a dead heli, just fit them and I can get the main rotor to touch the tail rotor with 95's and 90's and 85's ( standard) on the tail - I wouldn't go any smaller on the tail, scraptors not renown for razor sharp tails

Later

Tim

Is anyone normal.....?

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06-04-2004 02:08 PM  13 years agoPost 303
blade3d

rrElite Veteran

New Jersey USA

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Gordon I think I know what you mean,, when I was putting mine together I noticed that the rod that goes through the tube didn't have any thread to screw it into I didnt think much about I just put the rod trraight through the tube with the ball link on then put a nylon nut on the other end of the rod and tightened it that was it, the instruction wasn't to clear so I just went ahead and made sure it was sucure,, is the tube supposed to have threads in it ??


Blade3d

Rupert

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06-04-2004 02:22 PM  13 years agoPost 304
gordon

rrApprentice

Isle of Wight UK

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I run red dampers 600mm blades with a OS 50 but I do run NHP 90mm tail blades seems to work well.
Scoty
Decent digital camera ? is there something wrong with my photo's ?
The hole point of RR is to talk about thing's so we know what is new and what can give a problems . It was like the flack I got when I posted the canopy problem with the V2 when it came out .Some said there was nothing wrong with the catch but a lot of others said there was. But I was only one of a few that had a crash because of it and a mod was found to sort the problem it only takes a few min's to check to see if you have a problem or not it costs nothing.
You say you are running 680 main blades what dampers are you running ? there was a posting just after the V2 came out that on standard dampers doing repeated back flips SOME Raptors cut there own tail off.
Also what blade holders are you using and at what head speed ? As you know I use Quick UK head and when the idea of putting a 60 into the kit was going around . I spoke to Bud at Quick UK and was told that the blade holders would not take bigger blades safely.

the instructions where not that clear about a lot of thing's a exploded view would have been nice but we covered that at the beginning of the posting I don't know if Xero G have put one up they said they would.

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06-04-2004 02:44 PM  13 years agoPost 305
dttheliman

rrNovice

Manchester - The original one

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Gordon,
thats what i am on about , I have a best bitz head head on mine, absoloutely solid - lets wait and see what scoty's pictures look like.

Not had much chance to get much further yet though expect to at the week end

Later

Tim

Is anyone normal.....?

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06-04-2004 03:00 PM  13 years agoPost 306
G.Man

rrProfessor

Bristol

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The ball link that screws into the elevator at the front of the swash instead of screwing the ball link onto a push rod it screws into a tube .
Gordon, this is NOT how the ball link fits to the elvator bellcrank at all..

The Ball Link is a push fit in the bellcrank and is then held in place by an Allen Screw that enters in the bottom of the U part of the bellcrank...

That allen screw is the equivalent of a pushrod...

Sorry to say it mate, but looks like you missed a vital step in the build...

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06-04-2004 03:05 PM  13 years agoPost 307
gordon

rrApprentice

Isle of Wight UK

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I have just taken the bellcrank off the heli and cut a thread into the hole at the bottom of the tube I am hoping to be able to use this to lock the ball link in place. The tube is a good idea to keep things straight but these days there are so many different ball links out there but I did use a TT one.I have noted one other thing about this design if you over adjust the link then slacken it off again it does leave free play for the link to move up and down in time.With the thread cut in I will be able to lock it off.

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06-04-2004 03:09 PM  13 years agoPost 308
G.Man

rrProfessor

Bristol

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Gordon

just find the 2mm (or 2.5mm) allen bolt that attaches the ball link to the cradle and you will not need all those extra methods...

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06-04-2004 04:21 PM  13 years agoPost 309
gordon

rrApprentice

Isle of Wight UK

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Galifrey
My field is big and I don't have a mettle detector
I have already started doing the mod it is not going to happen again I hope

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06-04-2004 07:39 PM  13 years agoPost 310
ScotY

rrApprentice

USA

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Gordon,

Galifrey is right, the ball link is secured with an allen bolt, not a piece of pushrod. I am quite certain this is indicated in the instructions. Anyway, didn't mean to criticize your photos, but they are not too clear and it's hard to see details. If you had a problem with the build and posted a clear picture of the elevator bellcrank, I think someone would have been able to see the assembly and caught the problem. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Regarding the 680mm blades...I simply mentioned that because you mentioned the mechanics were not flight or durability tested and, possibly, of improper design. I've flown it with the 680s and it is just fine...nothing has fallen off or broken in flight. Realize that this is NOT within the scope of it's design criteria and I am quite sure XeroG will not be so gracious if you decide to follow suit and something comes apart.

For the curious, I am not using the stock rotor head nor a metal version of one. Take your pick, nearly any 10mm rotor head should work. This is done at YOUR OWN RISK. Custom length main shaft, long boom (off an Ergo 60), long belt.

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06-04-2004 07:56 PM  13 years agoPost 311
cwm

rrVeteran

Las Vegas NV

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Gorden
Please help me understand your crash.
You said "Quote"
would not fly it again with this type of link apart from making a new one the only other way I can see of moding it is to cut the tube part off and drill and tap what is left and use a push rod up to the swash plate. So the rod goes into the ball link like they are designed to work rather than it screw into the tube.

It sounds to me that you did not put the bolt in from the bottom?
Im I missing something???

Not trying to start a flame war or anything but I have been flying mine for 3 weeks pretty hard and need to know if I should rework mine or not.
If your saying you put it together with the bolt then we have a problem.
But from what i have read it seems like you just screwed it into the tube.
Now I have been know for doing some stupid things and forgetting things like the elevator servo screw on my Rappy 90 and it did the same thing on it first flight.
So tell us did you have the bolt in or not?

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06-04-2004 08:57 PM  13 years agoPost 312
johnboy

rrVeteran

South Lincolnshire nr Peterborough UK

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Oooo a review

This is how it happened, I turn up at the field and galifrey is pre flighting, next thing is `fly my carbon rappy john see what you think’ now some people just talk a good job but I have known galifey a couple of years now, I also know his set-ups and build are the most meticulous I know of. Now I didn’t run my eye over the bling, but it’s well spec’ed to say the least. Any how, any spec’ed rappy or voyager have that similar feel, very stable and smooth but that slight nod and very slightly soggy feel. Galifreys carbon rappy is by a long way the most precise and crisp 50 I have flown and without any doubt the eccpm is an attributing factor to this. I have flown most machines blinged and stock but none match galifreys machine. It was quite breezy when I had a little go. Its just so hands off. I mean even in the breeze, when flipping or the wrong way up flying about the machine is so solid but alert

Keep in mind though, this machine is in A1 condition, zero slop, I think 1900 on the head, quick UK head assembly and standard flybar ratios! On song and sweet.

The voyager could be a little soggy now after galifrey crisp 50……all you just need is the voyagers tail power and a longer boom

¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤

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06-04-2004 09:36 PM  13 years agoPost 313
G.Man

rrProfessor

Bristol

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Hey Johnboy

glad you found the time to comment...

Was sweet watching him hands off hover inverted for at least 30 seconds and the machine just sat there...

Headspead was close, 1940 on it with BBT blades, QUK full head, 8321 servos, NHP carbon tail servo mount...

560 Gyro with 8700, TJ Pro with Autoglow is the full spec...

All complemented by OS50 on MP2Q with 60B carb

She sure is one nice rappy...

Zero G have done a great job, I take back any former comments I made about the possible negatives of this machine it is first rate..

If you want the ultimate R50 (maybe the ultimate 50) this could well be it...

PS thanks for the nice omments on my build John, I have been known to make the odd cock up tho

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06-04-2004 09:40 PM  13 years agoPost 314
cwm

rrVeteran

Las Vegas NV

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By the way the belt pulley hole makes a great place to mount batt monitor

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06-04-2004 09:46 PM  13 years agoPost 315
gordon

rrApprentice

Isle of Wight UK

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Just a quick reply to you all the allen headed 2.5mm bolt was in it was not left out and locked with red the tube hides just how much is holding the ball link.
I have jumped straight to this part as causing the crash as this is the only part that had come apart that would make the heli fly like it did before it went in.
I had changed feul to Cool Power that night the heli lifted off as the night before no problem with a high head speed 2000 ish hovered all most hands off about a foot off the ground for a bit just to check things out. Then it just climbed rapid coming backwards towards me at about 30 feet.At this point I am off the throttle the heli then did back flips till it hit the ground nose in.
Damage
blades head spindle had to cut it to get it out the head. fly bar. both pitch links.top frames at canopy mounts main shaft. landing gear. boom . boom supports.one fin.decals.

I have to say there is no front frame damage the frames are rock solid apart from the canopy mounts and may be if I had plastic mounts they would have gone instead of the frames. The boom is bent but not from boom strike it is just bent off to the left slightly there you have it .All part's ordered and on there way I e mailed Xero G but have not herd back from them yet about the frames.
The only thing that is broken on the heli is the elevator ball link and for the heli to go from a rock solid hover to do what it did must have been that link. The link was still on the swash not split no sign of the allen bolt There you go

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06-04-2004 09:48 PM  13 years agoPost 316
G.Man

rrProfessor

Bristol

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It sounds to me that you did not put the bolt in from the bottom?
That was what I thought...

That bolt is soooo tight into the ball link, I cannot see any way that would come out except build error...

JMHO

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06-04-2004 10:02 PM  13 years agoPost 317
cwm

rrVeteran

Las Vegas NV

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Thanks for clearing that up.
I have some of the Vigor White ball links that JR uses for that.
I wonder if they would be better?

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06-04-2004 10:05 PM  13 years agoPost 318
gordon

rrApprentice

Isle of Wight UK

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sorry to disappoint but it was in was being the word
It had flown the night before setting up and running engine in used 3/4 of a gallon of feul .I think if the bolt was not in there it would have come apart then.

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06-04-2004 10:16 PM  13 years agoPost 319
G.Man

rrProfessor

Bristol

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It may or may not have, the point that gave it away for me was about when you said if you tighten the ball link to far and then turn it back its loose...

This could not happen with the bolt tightened down properly... as it tightens the ball link into the bellcrank no matter what position it is in... you actually stated that it screwed into the tube, which it does not...

The only way I can see that bolt unscrewing/coming loose from what is effectively a nyloc is if it had been tightened so far it had ripped the thread out of the plastic link...

There is no design failure or fault with this part... It is the same as many other helis I have flown including the Cypher 50

When in doubt human error is nearly always to blame

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06-04-2004 10:23 PM  13 years agoPost 320
gordon

rrApprentice

Isle of Wight UK

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I don't know why I bother I always get flack
In my case I had to get the ball link into the tube part way before the bolt would pull it down.

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HelicopterThunder TigerOther › Carbon CCPM frame for R30
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