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›››› Who uses the CC Built-In-Governor (https://rc.runryder.com/t316023p1/)
Posted by Cybinary on 01-22-2007 08:24 PM:
Hi Guys,
I just recently got a Rex450SEV2 and am loving flying it after learning on my blade. I have a JGF450 with a CC35 and a 13t pinion and it runs great. But while I was looking over a few of the settings on the ESC (Looking at what I could tweek to run better) I starting looking more and more into the built in governor on these ESCs.

How many out there that run a Gov enabled ESC, CC/Jazz, enable the Gov and use it instead of using the radios TH Curves?

"Gravity is a Harsh Mistress!"

Posted by BrainDrain_dx on 01-22-2007 08:35 PM:
Jazz gov setup = turn on gov mode , draw a straight line throttle curve, go fly, be happy

cc gov setup = turn on gov high, draw a straight line throttle curve, monkey with settings, turn on gov low, monkey with settings,monkey with some more settings, go back to gov high, monkey with more settings, realize its not a jazz, put back to non gov mode and go fly, be happy

KDS Agile 7.2/5.5 Chase 360 - SkyHero Spyder/Spy/Little Spyder
Sponsored by my Visa

Posted by Cybinary on 01-22-2007 09:18 PM:
So your saying dont mess with Gov mode on CC ESC then?

"Gravity is a Harsh Mistress!"

Posted by KamikaziRcPilot on 01-22-2007 09:43 PM:
The governor mode on the CC35 works great. Originally, BrainDrain_dx's description was fairly accurate, but now that the firmware has been upgraded and enough people have learned the correct sequence in setting it up, it's not difficult at all. Unfortunately, not everyone can afford to drop $165 on a Jazz. I already had a CC35 and couldn't justify purchasing another ESC.

The overview on Castle's webpage where you download firmware updates gives you the basic steps. I'm working on a document that provides step-by-step instructions for all of the CC35 settings. Pm me and I'll send you copy when it's ready.
Posted by Cybinary on 01-22-2007 10:12 PM:
Thanks KamikaziRC...that would help!

"Gravity is a Harsh Mistress!"

Posted by Jag72 on 01-22-2007 10:16 PM:
Castle ESC's
I use a lot of castle esc's...got about 6 of them right now ...

I never used the Gov modes until this weekend...there is a tricky procedure that you need to follow to get the setup just right...

I was on the phone with Joe at Castle this morning for about 20 minutes while he explained to me how to set it up properly...

You need to set your endpoints up just right for the gov mode to work right....I was maxxing out at 35% so I realized something was wrong...I'm going home tonight to see if what he told me to do works...
Posted by KamikaziRcPilot on 01-22-2007 10:27 PM:
Hey Jag72!

Can you share what Joe divulged on the phone? I'd like to compare that to what I'm putting together.

Thanks!
Posted by dkshema on 01-22-2007 11:45 PM:
If you intend to use the CC governor mode, use the Phoenix Link cable to download the newest software. The software that ships in the stock ESC doesn't do a very good job when it comes to governor modes. The new stuff available on the CC website does.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

Posted by Awais on 01-22-2007 11:50 PM:
I've been using governor on CC35 on my trex for a while. It works great with the latest firmware. I've used both 420lf and 430l motors.

Awais
Posted by Jag72 on 01-23-2007 02:09 PM:
GOV mode...
You do need to download the latest version of the firmware...it has a pretty good slow spool up....

You need to set your end points up first in :"fixed heli endpoints" mode...

basically you need to set your throttle travel adjust to 50% and then put the throttle stick to "high" and power up the heli...slowly bring the travel closer to 100% until you hear a single confirmation tone....then unplug the battery...you then need to set your low travel ...

to do this power up the heli with the throttle stick at "low" and slowly bring the travel for the throttle from 100% closer to 0...when you hear the esc engage the motor then you know the low point is set....after you have done this then you need to go back and put the ESC in Gov mode...

For some reason my Logo 14 seems to max out at 35% in gov Mode...

Looks like I will be back on the phone with Castle Creations today...
Posted by KamikaziRcPilot on 01-23-2007 02:28 PM:
Jag72:

Actually, in gov high mode, that could be normal. In fixed mode, the throttle value in the radio directly corresponds to the position within the 0-100 range like you'd think it would. But in gov mode, the throttle value in the transmitter is merely giving it a value to use for the rpm. In gov low, the value for say a 2800 rpm head speed is in the 80-100 range, whereas in gov high, it's typically in the 30-50 range. I discovered this the hard way when I first started with gov low, and then determined that I needed to switch to gov high. Before setting it to gov high, I adjusted my throttle curves down to 50% figuring that would be low enough. WRONG! When I spooled it up, the head speed shot up about 3400 and it chucked a 325 pro wood blade into my basement stairs carpeting! It did extensive damage to the heli.

I always tell people now that before they switch into any governor mode, to set their throttle curves down to 10 or below, then increment them to get the head speed they want. As long as you set the endpoints in fixed mode properly, then the gov will work fine. The throttle curve values do not correlate to anything in gov mode. Just adjust them to give you the head speed you want.

I like Joe's idea for setting the endpoints better than the way I've been doing it. It's much safer! I'm going to amend my setup instructions.

Thanks...
Posted by kingkahuna on 01-23-2007 02:38 PM:
IMPORTANT LESSON Learned! Gov mode on CC35 (FINALY Figured it out!!!!!!)
After screwing with this thing for a month I figured out the best setup. Ok here is the deal if you are using the new CC phoenix 35 enable gov mode high for the Align motor. I have my NORMAL throttle curve set at 75%low 75%mid 95%high (yes you did read that correctly). The reason for the low being set at 75% is because the CC35 instructions tell you to, and you should use your Throttle hold switch to control the on and off of the throttle. (Be absolutely sure the throttle hold is set at 0%). Make sure you set it up like this because the throttle is erratic bellow half throttle, and if you make the fatal mistake of pulling the throttle stick bellow half throttle like I did (thankfully I saved it), you will have to go through the spool up process again.

I hope this helps, my T-Rex is flying like a dream now.
Posted by BrainDrain_dx on 01-23-2007 02:52 PM:
"After screwing with this thing for a month I figured out the best setup"
jazz owners say....
"after screwing with my jazz for 3 minutes I figured out the best setup"
I went from fixed to gov on my phoenix 25 and it let out the magic smoke in a couple minutes and died. I'm still bitter (although I use their esc's in all my planes)

KDS Agile 7.2/5.5 Chase 360 - SkyHero Spyder/Spy/Little Spyder
Sponsored by my Visa

Posted by lowflyer101 on 01-23-2007 02:55 PM:
cc with the latest firmware and the right setup, it is as good as jazz

<-freedoom flyer->

Posted by Jag72 on 01-23-2007 02:59 PM:
Thanks for the info KamikaziRcPilot
I figured the actual percentage really didn't matter but I wasn't sure...good to know though...thanks again...

I am looking to switch to Jazz ESC's in my logo 14's as well...I hear they are much easier and more reliable in GOV. mode...
Posted by KamikaziRcPilot on 01-23-2007 03:03 PM:
Hey BrainDrain_dx,

You're not providing anything beneficial to this thread. We are aware that the Jazz's gov mode requires less setup and may work a little better, but there are a lot of people that already have the Phoenix ESC and are willing to spend a little time to set it up properly. Once it's setup, it works excellent.

If you happen to have a Jazz ESC that you're willing to sell for the price of a Phoenix, let me know. I'd like to purchase one for comparison purposes.
Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-23-2007 03:09 PM:
i have 2 cc 35's and never even new they had governors. i cant waitto try and set it up in mine.

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-23-2007 03:10 PM:
Jag72 i'll give you $40 for your CC

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by Jag72 on 01-23-2007 03:17 PM:
Thanks but all my CC esc's are "big ones"
All my castles ESC's are 85HV's.....can't imagine letting one of those go for 40$
Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-23-2007 03:17 PM:
if you download the new software do you need to reset the fixed end points? i got them set up now & was planning for the download tonight.

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-23-2007 03:19 PM:
ok Jag72 i'll go $55 & use it in my t 600

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by Edge on 01-23-2007 04:00 PM:
You're not providing anything beneficial to this thread. We are aware that the Jazz's gov mode requires less setup and may work a little better, but there are a lot of people that already have the Phoenix ESC and are willing to spend a little time to set it up properly. Once it's setup, it works excellent.
Sorry, but believe he "was" contributing to this thread! It's important for new people to know that there is an excellent ESC out there that works without a lot of complicated and frustrating screwing around. Sure the CC ESC is reasonabily priced and after you buy the option for computer connectivity, it is easy to make program changes. However, how much is your time worth in jacking around with finding the "just right" settings that work well with your particular motor and radio?

BrainDrain is dead on, program the Jazz in 3 minutes and fly. Always great governor performance! Read all the threads here about time spent in getting the CC35 right to work in governor mode. I would offer that the Jazz for many would have been "cheaper" in the long run! And thats not even mentioning the benefit of a switching onboard BEC which does not overheat like that on the CC35 which causes many to also buy and run a separate BEC!
Posted by KamikaziRcPilot on 01-23-2007 04:24 PM:
Point taken, but, this thread has been about helping people that already have the CC35. I agree that the Jazz is excellent. A simple search will reveal that the Jazz is the ESC to go with if you're just starting out, but if you already have a CC35 and/or cannot afford the price of the Jazz, the CC35 is an excellent alternative. With the latest firmware, the gov in my CC35 is working as well as my friend's T-Rex equiped with a Jazz. The main difference is the setup. I already had several Castle ESC's and the Castle Link USB adapter when I got started with my T-Rex. I wasn't about to spend twice the money for something that may work a little better than something I already had.

Now, back to our regulary scheduled program...
Posted by ktm520 on 01-23-2007 05:40 PM:
i have been working with the cc35 gov mode for a couple of weeks now. KamikaziRcPilot's posts have helped me out alot. but, i still haven't been able to get the gov to work as expected. i followed the setup instructions on cc website to the T (set the throttle endpoints correclty). the gov maintains headspeed very well and will hold a consistented hover without bobbing. my problems is that the power spikes randomly and this causes the tail to twitch. the 401 does a good job of controlling it, but the tail still slightly twitches. the power spike is hard enough that you can hear the shock on the gear train.

i have my rex setup for duration (small pinion, low headspeed). i started out at 2100 rpm. with the 430L (3550kv) and a 11t pinion, this equated to 47% throttle in gov high. gov low only created 1600 rpm at 100% throttle. i tried the whole range of gov gain settings and 19 minimized the power spikes but didn't eliminate them. i also played with motor timing and throttle response without any success. so, i started raising the headspeed and was finally able to eliminate the tail twitching, but i it didn't disappear until the headpseed reached 2600 rpm. i don't need that much headspeed rightnow and i don't want to waste the extra power.

so, i tried a lower kv motor (450th, 3000kv). this didn't help at all and i had the same issues at low headspeed as with the 430L. i've switched back to curves for now.

for you all that have the cc35 gov working well, i'm curious to know what motor/pinion and heaspeed you are running?
Posted by KamikaziRcPilot on 01-23-2007 05:43 PM:
Medusa 28-32-3400 with 12T pinion. Have you adjusted the "governor gain" at all? About how often do the spikes occur? (every 5 seconds, 30 seconds, 2 minutes, etc.)
Posted by ktm520 on 01-23-2007 05:59 PM:
yes, i stated in my reply that i tried the full range of gov gain settings. it spikes randomly, sometimes a second in between, sometimes five seconds, sometimes it may go 10 sec. it doesn't really cause any problems when doing FF/FFF, but i'm worried it may cause problems when i get more into 3d.

kamikazi, how much headspeed are you running?
Posted by KamikaziRcPilot on 01-23-2007 06:03 PM:
Normal: 2400
Idle1: 2800
Idle2: 3100
Posted by ktm520 on 01-23-2007 06:19 PM:
kamikazi, thanks for the info. last time we spoke about the cc35 gov, i seem to remember that you were helping a buddy setup a rex with the 430L at low hs and were having problems. did you sort them out?

is anyone else running headspeed lower than 2500 and not having issues with the cc35 gov? ifso, could you share your settings. from what i've seen, not too many guys run low hs.
Posted by BrainDrain_dx on 01-23-2007 07:01 PM:
Ok, you are right I was just complaining and not helping. What are the setting to make the cc gov work like jazz gov? I was never able to achieve anything close even with the newest firmware and several hours of fiddling.

KDS Agile 7.2/5.5 Chase 360 - SkyHero Spyder/Spy/Little Spyder
Sponsored by my Visa

Posted by Jag72 on 01-23-2007 07:09 PM:
CC esc.....
Hey, I just got off the phone with Castle Again....their customer support and tech support is great!...if you have any questions I'd just give them a call....

I managed to get my Gov. mode to work great on the 85hv after a couple calls and a couple days of fiddling...
Posted by KamikaziRcPilot on 01-23-2007 07:20 PM:
ktm520: I believe that his problem is related to the fact that he's running the tail reduction gear. I don't feel that the reduction gears should be used until the head speed crests the 2800 or so level. Head speeds lower than that slow the tail rotor down too much, then it struggles to work properly because the tail isn't responding quick enough to what the gyro is trying to accomplish. Mine does the same thing to some extent when I'm in normal mode at 2400 rpms. It's fine once I flip to idleup1 or idleup2.

BrainDrain_dx: No problem, I just get a little irritated when I'm trying to put out a fire and someone helps by handing me a gas can. There are no "best settings" for the Castle governor. It's going to vary based on motor, pinion, etc. You have to walk through the setup on the transmitter and ESC. I've worked with four friends that tried to set it up on their own without prior experience. In most cases, they were doing the right steps, just not in the right order. As mentioned above, I'm putting together a document of what I've found to be the correct order of steps. I'm going to walk completely through it today after work and compile a document that I'll post. Anyone/Everyone's welcome to review and add/delete/correct anything they find. I'm just trying to provide some help based on my growing pains. I didn't have anyone to help me when I got started and it was reeeeeeeeally frustrating.
Posted by ktm520 on 01-23-2007 07:45 PM:
kamikazi, its good to hear that someone else is seeing the same thing as i am. like i said, the gov works good if i set the heaspeed above 2600 rpm. i'm not running the tail reduction gearset. i'm going to call cc's tech support and see what i can get out of them.

if i was running high headspeed, i would have had no problem at all setting up the cc35 for gov mode. the hardest part is fine tunning the gov gain.
Posted by KamikaziRcPilot on 01-23-2007 07:58 PM:
The Castle recommended gov gain for the T-Rex 450 size heli, I believe, is 50, but my head speed fluctuated quite a bit at that setting. I turned mine down to around 25, then gradually incremented it until the head speed started to vary, then backed it down a couple of numbers.
Posted by Rum95 on 01-23-2007 09:03 PM:
For setting the end points...I thought I should set the low end first... so I get the Esc to arm itself? Then set the high end?
Posted by Jag72 on 01-23-2007 09:07 PM:
esc setting endpoints...
Set the High first...then set the low...That's what castle recommended to me...
Posted by Cybinary on 01-24-2007 03:06 AM:
This is awsome guys! Lots of great info in here for how to do it!!

Kamikazi, I cant wait to see what you put together when it's done! Now, here is the real question...

When I first started this thread I was asking how many people run the Gov mode and if so...Why? Im debating on if it will help the preformance of my rex and how it will help. Im not doing 3D yet and still consider myself a beginner with all this stuff. The reason Im asking is because I love learning about all this stuff and after getting my rex tweaked JUST RIGHT I'm curious if there is anything else I can do to tweak it just a little more for a much better flying bird.

Again, love all the feedback on how to set it up!

"Gravity is a Harsh Mistress!"

Posted by Inspector Fuzz on 01-24-2007 03:19 AM:
CC vs. Jazz
I bought my CC 35 with my first Trex over a year and a half ago. I tried then to set up the gov and it never worked right. Then, a couple months later I bought the link cable and downloaded what would be the first of many software updates which......did nothing to fix the governer problem.
I still have the CC 35. However, buying a new Jazz esc whose BEC does not cut out constantly and crash my heli ended up being the easiest fix for the governer problems on the CC 35.
Take that pizza delivery job. Find a rich guy to do the "indecent proposal" thing for $ with your wife or girlfriend. Hock your favorite underwear. Just do what you need to do to get that Jazz. You won't regret it.
The CC35 is fine for a 3D foamy plane, but I wouldn't waste the time it takes to plug in that computer link to ever use it for a heli again.
JEFF
Posted by KamikaziRcPilot on 01-24-2007 03:20 AM:
I'm standing at my workbench right now. I've just finished going through the entire governor setup. I'm going to work on the documentation next.

In general, the use of governor mode should simplify the setup process because it saves tweaking throttle curves to get a head speed that's consistent. It took Castle a while to get the firmware to a point where it's working very well. It's been a rough road, but it's paid off. I started wit m T-Rex 16 months ago, back when the governor wasn't worth messing with. One of the main things I like about using the governor mode is that the head speed stays consistent throughout the flight. This is something that throttle curves cannot accomplish. While using throttle curves, the head speed will slowly drop as the battery voltage drops. Governor mode compensates by increasing the amperage.

You hear people say that governor mode isn't as efficient as non-governor mode, and because of this the flight times are shorter in governor mode. It's not due to a lack of efficiency, but due to the fact that the governor is doing exactly what it's being told to do: maintain the head speed. I would rather have slightly shorter flight times with a heli where the head speed is the same at the end of the flight. My T-Rex handles the same throughout the flight, and I really like that.
Posted by Edge on 01-24-2007 03:30 AM:
I've used both curves and governor mode. IMHO, unless you are a 3D pro with great collective management skills and the knowledge/feel for fine tuning curves, the use of an ESC with a great rpm holding governor mode can't be beat! I'll never go back to curves on the Trex. A primary benefit of a good functioning governor is consistant motor performance and control feel throughout the flight, as the ESC manages battery output to maintain HS.

This is a benefit which will help your flying!
Posted by KamikaziRcPilot on 01-24-2007 03:41 AM:
Inspector Fuzz: At some point Castle started incorporating dual regulators into the CC35 BEC. I know that the CC25 more received that upgrade in the last 6-12 months or so. I've flown many, many flights on mine with a data logger connected between the ESC and the receiver. The in-flight amp draw has never risen above 1.28 amps no matter how hard I've pushed it. The in-flight voltage has never gone below 5.28, which I see as a clear indication that the CC35 BEC isn't being pushed near its' limits. I can see using a separate BEC if I ever go to all digital servos.

You may have just had a defective unit. I've run across Jazz failures too. True, every device has a limit, and it's possible to have a heli setup incorrectly to where there's servo binding and so forth, which will greatly increase the amp draw. If a CC35's BEC is designed to handle a 1.5 continuous amp draw and it's subject to more and fails, I don't fault the device. If you put tires on your car with a low speed rating, then exceed that rating and they explode, do you fault the manufacturer?

I think that the specifications are misleading when it stated "BEC (3A)" on the packaging (I still have mine!). It can handle bursts up to 3A, but the continuous rating is much lower. I wish these things were explained up front.
Posted by Inspector Fuzz on 01-24-2007 03:57 AM:
No binding here...
My stuff is always gets anal attention to detail. All control links are always sized to the balls they ride on so that they are very free. No binding anywhere.
All the times it stalled out always occured during fast backwards flight. Whenever I started working the tail hard, the current draw from the tail servo was too much. Flying fast, tight, backwards figure eights I could make the thing cut EVERY time. Upright or inverted, if you pushed the tail the EXC would cut out for about 1-2 seconds.
It works fine in a plane, with 4 servos.
JEFF
Posted by dkshema on 01-24-2007 04:12 AM:
Did you ever disable the current limit feature on your CC ESC. It's a must with helicopter operation. Otherwise you'll see random, momentary motor cutouts.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

Posted by Inspector Fuzz on 01-24-2007 04:30 AM:
Current limiter disabled..
Yep.
I saw a guy with one at the flying field this weekend and it seemed to be working great. He did confide that he had spent a good deal of time "fidling" with it. To each their own.
I guess my point really is that the few extra bucks you pay for the Jazz vs the CC and its computer link is really worth it.
If someone is looking for their first ESC the Jazz ought to be it. The switching regulator, not the governer, was the original reason I bought mine.
JEFF
Posted by dkshema on 01-24-2007 04:44 AM:
Just checking...

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

Posted by KamikaziRcPilot on 01-24-2007 05:31 AM:
I'm not going to be able to post my setup instructions until tomorrow. I've gotten most of them put together, but unfortunately, I need to get up for work in about 6 hours. I'd rather wait and do a good job than rush and post erroneous information.

I'll try and finish them over lunch and get them posted.

PS "Current limiting" is one of the settings that I'll cover later...
Posted by Cybinary on 01-24-2007 12:12 PM:
Looking forward to it Kamikazi!

Thanks again for everyones input...It has helped a great deal in making it clearer on who does and who should use gov mode.

I may go through your instructions Kamikazi and try enabling the gov just to see what the difference is...the only thing I am concerned with is less flight time, but that shouldn't really be an issue since I only fly my packs for 6-7 Min each anyway.

"Gravity is a Harsh Mistress!"

Posted by murp on 01-24-2007 12:25 PM:
Here is a relevant link, see the end of the post for instructions on how to setup - pretty much what CC tells you. I have two CC ESC's and both are in GOV mode, the GOV mode works great and I like the feel of it better, good luck

http://runryder.com/t286892p2/

Cheers.
Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-24-2007 05:23 PM:
i keep trying to get my cc connected to the pc but all i get is this message "no controller or invalid controller connected"

so who can tell me what im doing wrong?
PLEASE i have not used the gov mode yet but i cant wait to try it now
i bought both of my cc's used and didnt even know they had that. they both worked great out of the box.

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-24-2007 05:57 PM:
i have the medusa motor as well where should i run the timing ?

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-24-2007 08:23 PM:
got them on the phone today. Got to say i like those guys... GREAT HELP!!!!

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by KamikaziRcPilot on 01-25-2007 02:16 AM:
Ok, I just posted my document to my gallery:

http://runryder.com/gallery/34015/T-Rex_Tips.pdf

I decided to add the governor setup procedure to a document I started a little while back that contains serveral things I've discovered along the way since getting into the T-Rex. The section on the governor setup is at the end. It's not as complete and detailed as I would like, but I have several home and work projects on the burner at the moment and need to focus on them.

If anyone finds any flaws in my document, please PM me and I'll correct it.

Thanks!
Posted by dkshema on 01-25-2007 03:04 AM:
Kamakazi -- try this link, yours doesn't work, wrong file name!

http://runryder.com/gallery/34015/T...2404_0908pm.pdf

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

Posted by KamikaziRcPilot on 01-25-2007 03:18 AM:
Oops! I messed up the script somehow. It should be fine now.

Thanks...
Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-25-2007 03:59 AM:
KamikaziRcPilot i put in a good word for you today at CC. they reconized your id but forgot your name... i told them they should hook you up with a deal for trying to help everyone.

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by FOX222 on 01-25-2007 04:35 AM:
Here is a link to Castle instructions to setup the governor mode. Follow it and no fiddling, it works! I have setup several 35’s and a HV85 this way and I am very happy with them. I do own a Jazz and it works great but so does the CC if you follow their setup. One thing to keep in mind, if you don’t have a strong enough motor or good batteries nothing will make it hold RPM. I have also found that you must reach target head speed around 75 to 80% in fixed throttle for the governor mode to work. But in governor mode your throttle curve could be anything from 30 to 100%. Just ignore the numbers and set it to your target speed.

http://www.castlecreations.com/down..._beta_info.html
Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-25-2007 04:39 AM:
why dont we get some people to post there set ups on here? i'll save mine tomorrow and post it.

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by KamikaziRcPilot on 01-25-2007 01:19 PM:
Castle's instructions get you in the ballpark, but additional instructions could be added if their recommended setting doesn't work for your particular setup. For example, the governor gain. The instructions recommend using medium (50) for the T-Rex, but should add that if you're experiencing some pulsing that you should back it down to say 25, then gradually increment it until the pulsing starts, then back it down a few numbers.

When I get a moment today, I will call them about a couple of things that could be added to the instructions to help everyone, as well as one big one that's a safety concern: Switching from gov low to gov high, and what you should do with your throttle curves before doing so. As I mentioned before, I set my throttle curves down to 50 when I switched from gov low to gov high, thinking that would be a good starting value. Boy, was I wrong!!!
Posted by KamikaziRcPilot on 01-25-2007 09:29 PM:
Here are my current CC35 Settings using the V1.55 firmware:

#######################################################
# Castle Link Data File
# Created: Thursday, January 25, 2007
# Do Not Edit This File By Hand
#######################################################
Brake Ramp: Super Slow
Cutoff Voltage: 90
Hex55: 85
Brake Strength: 0
Direction: Forward (*)
Spool-Up Speed: 10
Throttle Type: Heli: Governor High
Current Limiting: Disabled
Brake Delay: .6 sec (Delayed) (*)
Motor Start Power: 44.9375
Throttle Response: 2
Motor Timing: Standard Advance (*)
Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff
PWM Rate: 13khz (*)
Governor Gain: 42.7142857142857
Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-26-2007 04:11 AM:
what program do you use to open it once you save it?

well i wrote it down anyway. - <stole the layout from KamikaziRcPilot>

Here are my current CC35 Settings
V1.55 firmware:

Cutoff Voltage: auto lipo

Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff

Brake Strength: 0

Throttle Type: Heli: fixed end points

Brake Delay: no delay

Direction: Forward (*)

Brake Ramp: Super Slow

Motor Start Power: 59

Spool-Up Speed: 10

PWM Rate: 13khz (*)

Throttle Response: 5

Current Limiting: Disabled

Motor Timing: High Advance (*)

Govener Gain: 50

Spool- up Speed: 8

i did make a few cahnged and have not run these settings yet. i did it before i saved them ...deeh deeh deeh

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-26-2007 05:47 AM:
just switched over to gov low and gotto 80% not at my desired RPMswapped to gov high and at 0 0 0 0 i still hit solid red light on the ESC at 3/4 stick??????
cant figure it out it should be at 0. im goingto try and reset my throttle low end point to se if that will change it.

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-26-2007 05:57 AM:
changed throttle responce from 5 to 2 much better throttle action but not high enough RPM also sawpped to a fresh TP 2100.

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-26-2007 06:06 AM:
ok so right now im at throttle responce 5
original throttle set points
gov on low & 94.5% to hit close to my desired RPM 2950 im still around 28ish hard to stick the gauge on by myself
im running a nedusa 28-32-3400

going back to gov high

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-26-2007 06:14 AM:
ARUGGGHHHHH!!!
back on high i get full throttle at 3/4 stick agian and its there until i go to my 0 position.

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by murp on 01-26-2007 11:32 AM:
I haven't been following this whole thread, so sorry if this has been covered before.

Have you made sure to set your throttle endpoints with the ESC in fixed throttle mode first?

I would recommend using the standard timing initially, also the throttle response should be set to the lowest setting when using gov mode.

I should also mention that in GOV mode the LED will come on when the target RPM has been reached - it does NOT indicate full throttle.

Here are some instructions I wrote from another thread:
You want to have your ESC run at 70% throttle at your desired head speed for it to operate most efficiently, basically it will run cooler. Also you want your motor to run the fastest at this point so you should pick the lowest tooth pinion that works.

To do this you can change your gearing by selecting the correct pinoin to get you close. I would recommend making sure that your TX endpoints are matched to your ESC. In fixed throttle mode adjust your lower endpoint so the ESC just arms and the upper endpoint so that the full throttle LED just comes on solid. Now tach your heli at 75% throttle (while in fixed throttle mode), if you get the head speed you want then you are golden. Just switch over to governor mode and adjust the TH point until you reach your desired headspeed again (I find that it doesn't end up being 75% oddly enough), that's it! This also makes sure that you have some head room for the ESC to increase the throttle to recover from heavy loads - and that is another big plus of setting it up this way.

I guess the point to all this is that gearing is important when setting up the ESC. Because ultimately if you are running the right pinion for the headspeed you want this stuff almost works itself out. But you want to avoid running a pinion with too high a tooth count at low throttle - hard on your motor and ESC. Running a pinion with too low a tooth count maxes your motor and ESC out so that there is little reserve power to recover from heavy loads.

The other minor point here is that you must setup all this stuff in fixed throttle mode. In governor mode the TH% does not relate linearly to the ESC TH%. For example, 50%TH in governor mode gives me 2400RPM which is close to 75-80% in fixed throttle mode. If Joe Ford is still kicking around perhaps he can verify that I have this correct - this is what I noticed from using CC ESC's.

BTW - you may already be operating very close to this already - I found that my setup was pretty good but making sure your TX endpoints match the ESC is good form IMO.

Anyhow, I hope this is useful.

cheers,
Posted by KamikaziRcPilot on 01-26-2007 01:54 PM:
I emailed Castle this morning to get clarification on the l.e.d. while in governor mode. I've always been curious about that aspect of it. I'll post their reply.
Posted by FOX222 on 01-26-2007 02:22 PM:
ARUGGGHHHHH!!!
back on high i get full throttle at 3/4 stick agian and its there until i go to my 0 position.
It sounds like your setup requires "full throttle" to hold this rpm.
Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-27-2007 12:58 AM:
murp yes if you read the whole thing i had it working perfectly before tuning gov on

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-27-2007 01:02 AM:
FOX222 in fixed mode i hit it around 78% throttle, in gov it should go full tilt unless i understood something wrong
i can fly it in low gov but its full throttle there & it shouldn't be. thats why i wentto gov high. besides i have the same setup as KamikaziRcPilot. and my ptich is by the book. 5-5.5 at hover 12 at full & -12 full negative

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by murp on 01-27-2007 12:25 PM:
just switched over to gov low and gotto 80% not at my desired RPMswapped to gov high and at 0 0 0 0 i still hit solid red light on the ESC at 3/4 stick??????
What do you mean gov high at 0 0 0 0?

When I setup my gov mode I setup one of my IDLE modes to have 0 pitch across the board and then put the stick in the lowest position and adjust that throttle point to set the speed. You spool up the heli say at 50%, check the headspeed, increase or decrease the throttle point as necessary. (Oh I use throttle hold to start and stop the heli, put zeros in all the other throttle points except the first one which you are adjusting.)

Once you find the throttle percentage (lets call it TH) that gives you the RPM you want you configure normal mode as 0 TH TH TH TH and IDLE1 as TH TH TH TH TH.
Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-30-2007 03:01 AM:
i mean i set my throttle increments to (0) all the way across the board (all 5 points)

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-30-2007 03:05 AM:
and this is a jr 8103 radio so its acutally 5 pionts set to 0 ot TH as you put it.

i understand this as i should have 100% thtrow on my stick to hit 100% ptich and the throttle gov should hold the RPM. however at 80% throw on my stick it turm the LED solid red. therefore telling me at 80% stick im at 100% throttle available.
or so i believe and thats why i stopped. at 100% i can run at 101% (give or take alittle) i run the risk of smoking my ESC

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by murp on 01-30-2007 11:39 AM:
To clarify:

Tx throttle point matching
--------------------------
1) Your ESC and Tx throttle endpoints will not likely match up as is. The first step is to adjust your throttle endpoints to make sure they match the ESC o% and 100%. To do this you put the ESC in fixed heli mode. Then setup a linear throttle curve and a pitch curve that gives you 0% pitch thoughout the range (this setup is temperory and only for doing this part of the setup). Set both throttle endpoints to 50 to start. Restrain your heli and power it up. Adjust your lower endpoint until youe ESC arms, then add a few more points for good measure. Now bring your stick up to full throttle. Increase the upper endpoint until the ESC LED lights. Now 0% and 100% on your Tx matches 0% and 100% on your ESC.

Gearing check
-------------------
2) In this step we need to ensure that your gearing is setup correctly. To do this we check that you get the desired headspeed around 75% (anywhere between 70 and 80% is fine). I do this by using a 0deg. pitch curve across the board and then setup a throttle curve like this 0-0-0-0-40. No restrain your heli, grab your tach and power it up. (Your ESC should still be in fixed throttle mode). After the ESC has armed move the stick to full throttle and have someone tach the head speed. Slowly increase the last throttle point until you reached the desired head speed. Whas the TH point between 70 and 80? If so then you gearing is good, time to turn on the governor mode.

Governor mode setup
-------------------
3) Configure your ESC to use gov. high mode. Continue to use the 0deg. pitch curve and a 0-0-0-0-40 throttle curve. Fire up the heli with your tach, go to full stick and adjust the last throttle point until you reach your desired headspeed (remember it takes a fraction of a second for the ESC to respond to the change in throttle). It will not be the same number found in the last step, lets call this number THGOV. The throttle point in fixed throttle mode do not match those in governor mode - their relation is unknown. But in my experience you will end up between 50 and 65. If you can't achieve the headspeed in high gov, try again in low gov mode.

4) setup a normal mode with a 0-THGOV-THGOV-THGOV-THGOV throttle curve and a linear pitch curve. Setup a IDLE mode with a flat throttle curve at THGOV and a linear pitch curve. Go fly.

I hope this helps clarify - it works - I know because all my helis use this setup

Cheers
Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-30-2007 05:00 PM:
murp if you read what i have written above you would see this was done
1) Your ESC and Tx throttle endpoints will not likely match up as is. The first step is to adjust your throttle endpoints to make sure they match the ESC o% and 100%. To do this you put the ESC in fixed heli mode. Then setup a linear throttle curve and a pitch curve that gives you 0% pitch thoughout the range (this setup is temperory and only for doing this part of the setup). Set both throttle endpoints to 50 to start. Restrain your heli and power it up. Adjust your lower endpoint until youe ESC arms, then add a few more points for good measure. Now bring your stick up to full throttle. Increase the upper endpoint until the ESC LED lights. Now 0% and 100% on your Tx matches 0% and 100% on your ESC.

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-30-2007 05:02 PM:
Gearing check
-------------------
2) In this step we need to ensure that your gearing is setup correctly. To do this we check that you get the desired headspeed around 75% (anywhere between 70 and 80% is fine). I do this by using a 0deg. pitch curve across the board and then setup a throttle curve like this 0-0-0-0-40. No restrain your heli, grab your tach and power it up. (Your ESC should still be in fixed throttle mode). After the ESC has armed move the stick to full throttle and have someone tach the head speed. Slowly increase the last throttle point until you reached the desired head speed. Whas the TH point between 70 and 80? If so then you gearing is good, time to turn on the governor mode.
did this also and i cant gear anymore i was at 92% to get my desired throttle and im using a 13t on a medusa motor

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by murp on 01-30-2007 05:03 PM:
why can't you gear anymore? couldn't you try a 14T pinion?
Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-30-2007 05:04 PM:
3) Configure your ESC to use gov. high mode. Continue to use the 0deg. pitch curve and a 0-0-0-0-40 throttle curve. Fire up the heli with your tach, go to full stick and adjust the last throttle point until you reach your desired headspeed (remember it takes a fraction of a second for the ESC to respond to the change in throttle). It will not be the same number found in the last step, lets call this number THGOV. The throttle point in fixed throttle mode do not match those in governor mode - their relation is unknown. But in my experience you will end up between 50 and 65. If you can't achieve the headspeed in high gov, try again in low gov mode.
thats what i keep saying even if im at 0-0-0-0-1 it still exceeds my head speed at 3/4 stick.

but in gove low im at 0-0-0-0-95 to get my desired headspeed
using a freshly charged lipo TP or APEX makes no difference.

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by murp on 01-30-2007 05:12 PM:
Then use gov mode low and try a 14T pinion.
Posted by FOX222 on 01-30-2007 06:47 PM:
eyeflyhelis,
Not trying to sound derogatory, but I do not think your end points are set correctly. If my curve is at 0-0-0-0-0 (in gov mode)my motor is not running. And you should not set up a curve with different numbers like 0-0-0-0-95. The throttle sets the head speed and should not change with stick movement.
Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-30-2007 09:05 PM:
calculation say that a 13t on that motor will pull 33 =/- amps. 14t will fry my esc. i'm going back through all settings again tonight to see if i get different results. in fixed mode the points are set EXACTLY how the directions say to do it.
doing it tonight w/ CC on the phone or KK

only you have the power to make no difference!

Posted by eyeflyhelis on 01-31-2007 11:37 AM:
ok went through all set ups again last night w/
KamikaziRcPilot. when we started i had all the same settings as he did except for initial start speed mine was 59 his was 40.

started by resetting to all factory presettings, then switched to fixed heli mode and set throttle settings. new numbers were 1% difference from my old #'s.
checked the rpm range and got my desired rpm around 80%.
switched to low gov and rpms were around 95% again. lowered my set points to 0-5-5-5-5 & went to high mode.
in high mode i was low on rpm so with the throttle/pitch at the #2 (middle) position (blades unloaded) i started to slowly raise the number. at 30% i got 2600rpm so i marked this down and proceeded to set my idle up speed
at 45% i got 2900 rpm. marked it down.
unplugged heli
went back into radio & set the normal mode to 0-30-30-30-30
& idle up modes to 45-45-45-45-45

the only difference i saw between the set ups i had done and the ones done with KamikaziRcPilot was in the beginning. i think i set my throttle high cut off & low cut off with out turning the radio off in between. but i did it exactly how my directions said to.
SOMETHING I NOTICED. my original directions were from a version 1.1 software. YEP 1.1 the first version. so if your doing this and have troubles download the newest version of directions from the web site.

only you have the power to make no difference!

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