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Century Hawk - 50NX - Raven - Predator > Century Gasser Buildup-UPDATED Feb '06
 
 
AGRAV8
rrProfessor
Location: Mosquito Coast......Houston Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		This is an ongoing post, so hang with me, guys......

OK, boyz in da hood...........its here. Like really here. As in the hand.
I'm gonna keep this thread up for build tips and any questions you might have about the kit and its construction. Any points that I think will help you in your build-up I will try to touch on. Here is a list of the optional items I purchased.....these mostly for personal taste and preference. The basic gasser kit is fine on its own with the exception of a couple of noted items, so don't feel obligated to rush out and get all of these:
Metal A arm for elevator......an absolute MUST in my opinion.
Elevator push-pull
Carbon boom supports
Neon Yellow landing gear ( I had these already) (Bling)
Double bearing block with thrust bearing for mainshaft (top)
Lower thrust bearing CNBB1018T along with machined washer HW6045A
Metal flybar control arms (I had these already, and went with it) (Bling)
Rotortech 700 MM carbon blades (although the aerotech woodies will probably be fine, just be mindful of the headspeed as with any blades)
Rotortech 105 MM carbon tail blades (really should get these when you order the kit)
Century Gasser Muffler. MUST have item in my opinion. Its' worth every penny.

My equipment:
DS 8311 servo's for ccpm
DS 8417 servo for throttle (I'll tell you why later)
Futaba GY 601/9251
Futaba 309 DPS synth RX
Futaba GV-1 with stator gator pickup
Gem 2000 rocker switch
3300 NiHm pack sub C cells
Century battery monitor

The UPPER FRAME layout is the same as the Predator glow series. No major surprises here. I opted for the metal elevator option, and the push pull to run it. I installed this on the LEFT side of the machine as viewed from the rear, instead of the right. Not a big deal, but this allowed me the room to install the tail control servo up front under the canopy.


Upper frame building tips:
Remember to put the 3 mm washers under the heads of the cap screws that secure thru slotted holes. This will help prevent a "set" on the frames when you crank down on them.

I made up a front servo rig for the 9251.....not a big deal, I just wanted to protect my hundred dollar and change investment in case of a problem. Thought it was a good idea, not an original by any sense of the word, but it worked out really well.






James
03-23-2004 Over year old.
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hpais
Senior Heliman
Location: Sao Paulo, SP - Brazil

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Isn't DS8417 a rudder servo?

James,

Great post!! Thanks a lot. I see you're using the 8311, but when I looked at Horizon's site, the 8417's "JR's fastest servo" are recommended as rudder servos. Do you need that fast a response time on the throttle with the GV1 you're putting on?

Thanks. Hermann
03-25-2004 Over year old.
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kenchoco
Senior Heliman
Location: houston,texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		damn james

hey can i come to your house and help ya? choco
03-25-2004 Over year old.
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AGRAV8
rrProfessor
Location: Mosquito Coast......Houston Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		No, Hermann

I wanted speed for obvious purposes.....and I had the 8417 here on call. I like the consistancy of a digital on the throttle. The GV-1 can drive a servo @ .18 or so. This while engaged. When NOT engaged, it allows the servo speed to react with the tx commands.

Actually, the MAIN reason I used it was for SAFETY.

Most gasser carbs have a return spring on the throttle lever. This spring has a small amount of force. Using a servo like the 8417, if power to the radio is lost (battery failure, switch lead, etc.) the force of the return spring IN CONJUNCTION with the vibration of the running engine is enough (when set up with loose enough ball links) will allow the return spring to kill the engine against the static resistance of the servo. I also run the ball links to the servo/throttle very loose....at any sizable impact, these will come off the ball, again......stopping the engine.

So, there you have it. Hope this helps a little bit. I intend to get back to the main body of the buildup later today, as there are a few guys getting started, and I want to help them avoid some issues I made (mostly all on my own....a couple cases of the "GEE, what the heck is wrong with me today").

BTW, appreciate your comment....I actually thought no one was interested..........

James
03-25-2004 Over year old.
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Lift
Elite Veteran
Location: Houston, TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Dude...you gotta let me bang the sticks around on that bad boy!!

Let's get together this weekend!
03-26-2004 Over year old.
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hpais
Senior Heliman
Location: Sao Paulo, SP - Brazil

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Are u posting the rest of the buildup?

James,

Read elsewhere you already pumped a gallon on your gasser. Please post the rest of the buildup. I may be the first guy to build a gasser in Brazil, or even a predator, for that matter. Not a lot of them around. what tips or tricks would you pass on to someone who never built a predator before? Any tricks on setting up the 231 engine?

Thanks for the great posts by the way, and I realy think your paint job is awesome.

Hermann
03-28-2004 Over year old.
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AGRAV8
rrProfessor
Location: Mosquito Coast......Houston Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Upper frame action !

I actually spent an hour and a half Saturday writing up the rest of the build.....and when I went to put it on with a picture, it blew it all away. Talk about bummed ! Guess now is as good a time as any, huh....

OK, the upper frames are basically done at this point. Note I went with the metal elevator A arm. Not an option in MY opinion....you pay once, you cry once. Much better than the plastic versions. Of all the upgrades, this is the best one you can do. Don't fool yourself........its CHEAP insurance, guys.....
Payton just called, and he noticed HIS kit came with the standard duty plastic A arm. He has a metal one on backorder.....but untill then I'm going to hook him up with a HD one I have here. HE thinks it is important enough to take the upper frame set apart to change it. Twice. I Agree. That should tell you something about the importance of this.

The manual does a good job up to this point. I was asked today if I took the head down and lubed/locktited it back up. No, I didn't. Not a bad idea, since nobody does it better than you.

OPTIONS I INSTALLED in the upper frame buildup...(its all YOU, BABY !)

I made a plastic plate to cover the servo hole on the right side (view from rear) and installed a gem rocker switch. Placement of the switch on this plate was a close to the rear as possible. Make the ON position rock FORWARD, off rock to the back. If not, you will wait (seems like forever) for the muffler to cool before you can turn it off. OR you can burn your hand trying......ask Payton AND James about that !!

Note also I have moved the elevator push-pull to the left side. Using the Century arm provided with that upgrade on this side requires a bit of clearance on the lever itself......just enough to give full throw to the swash while still clearing the rear canopy standoff. It doesn't take much, but be advised to check that.

I also put the upgraded upper bearing block (dual) and a mainshaft thrust bearing under the lower bearing. no, I don't go out and fly the hell out of a heli....BUT.......there are a couple of guys that DO, and I want this thing to be ready for whatever gets tossed its' way.

Obviously, as stated above......the Aluminum A arm.

That about covers that section.....if I think of more, or a question comes in from one of you guys that I missed, I'll come back and edit again.

Questions????
03-28-2004 Over year old.
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AGRAV8
rrProfessor
Location: Mosquito Coast......Houston Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Lower frame/engine goodies

The SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU DO.........

is get that fan/clutch runout correct. I'll go on record here....dial indicating this is NOT AN OPTION. .002 thousandths is the target. Above it.......not OK. Experienced modeler or novice.......if you don't have the stuff to do it, then find someone that does. Simply tightening the supplied bolt thru the fan into the crank of the engine ain't gonna cut it.

Lets cover this in great detail. Here is what you MUST have.......

Hardware........
You need to source yourself a 6 mm x 20-25mm long hex head bolt. Also, a flat washer for 6 mm. Grade 8.8. the kind you use a ratchet on. While your there, get a set of (4) 5mm X 15 bolts (again, the kind you can use a wrench on). Make this happen, Guys.......I ain't writing this to get any brownie points.

TIP OF THE WEEK.........These 4 bolts.......well, let me say this now.......while talking to Billme this morning @ 3 AM.....I said something that made him drop the telephone. He has had a fan get stuck, and fought with it to get it off. Those 4 bolts are primarily for clearance (as the tops are shorter than the supplied capheads) between the fan and the bolts. BUT.....as a BONUS.....IF you need to remove the fan and it won't budge......you can back those 4 bolts out with an open end wrench and use them to press against the fan, with even pressure on 4 points.....and pop it off. Without damage to the fan. How about THAT, Guys.....a built in fan puller.

Also the appropriate socket with ratchet to tighten it. A 6 inch long ratchet is enough. You will also need an extension for that ratchet-socket. 3 inchs is long enough, maybe 2. I used a longer one (cause it was there )
Dial indicator.......with magnetic base or some other way to hold it steady.
Vise: opens up enough to hold the engine sideways to the dial indicator. I have a 6 inch machinists vise. On my milling machine. (mill NOT required).
A wooden instrument to hit it with. Yes, Matilda.......we are gonna BEAT ON IT. NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH BEATING IT ON ! You can use the handle of a hammer (don't get frustrated and use the BUSINESS END).....I had a small chunk of 2 X 4 maybe 18 inches long.
Grease........I used wheel bearing grease....the crankshaft must be greased ONLY ON THE TAPER, not on the inside. You can get a little on the taper of the fan too, if you like.
An old toothbrush. Hard plastic handle. This will go into the exhaust port to lock the piston while working the fan.

Hmmmmmmmmm..........now what???? You got all this stuff ready to go......but what, when where why how??????

Ain't gonna tell ya. I got a tank to go burn. Oh, did I mention how sweet that Ozark smells with 2 OZ Amsoil 100-1 in it??

It DOES....... and it DID !!!!!
03-28-2004 Over year old.
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AGRAV8
rrProfessor
Location: Mosquito Coast......Houston Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Got your stuff ready??

Grease the shaft of the engine on the taper.
Put on the lower fan shroud. MAKE DAMN SURE you put it on the right way. If in doubt, take the cooling shroud and place it over the engine....do the holes line up?? If so, OK. If you brain fart like I did, you get to do this proceedure TWICE. So, check twice, and using the bolts (5 mm) I suggested secure the lower fan shroud plate onto the engine. Blue locktite on these. Not too tight, remember we are only holding the shroud in place.
Position the engine in the vise. The vise jaws should contact the mounting lugs on the engine. FIRM pressure, remember we don't want to crack the case, but it is imperative it remains still while we "do the deal" to it.
Place fan onto crankshaft, use the bolt suggested with washer, and start to make it up. I used Red locktite on mine. The toothbrush in the exhaust port will stop the piston from moving and get SOME pressure on the fan with the bolt. Take the dial indicator and check runout on the END of the fan......the end that the clutch will bolt to.
<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>
turn the engine from the REAR, not the fan when "dialing for dollars". If you use the fan side, it may cause errors in the reading.

You can get it fairly snug and then take that stick and whoop on it from the high side of the readings. What we are doing is making the tapers line up together and give us a good true reading. NO, don't get frustrated with it......and don't try to beat the hell out of it. A firm rap will suffice. TRY not to hit on the very end of the fan where the clutch will bolt to. Get it tight (considering the threads you looked at when you bought it) and runout needs to be .002 or less. You might have to turn the fan on the shaft and try a different position. This IS the most critical thing you will do to make your machine run well and not cause premature parts failure on the driveline. Take your time, don't rush it and don't settle for more than .002. IF you need to remove it and reposition the fan, back the bolt out and strike the fan with the wooden device from the rear at an angle. Not too hard, just wanting the taper to release. If it is still stuck, use those 4 bolts like I mentioned earlier. You might want to put something between the fan and bolts to prevent marring.....I didn't, as it is totally enclosed.

Got that fan running true?? Get it right. Leave the engine positioned on the vise.

Notice I said NOTHING about magnets on the fan for governor sensors, did I?? Get yourself a stator-gator pickup (a vendor on the main page) for the 231 puh engine. Tom knows exactly what you need, and magnets ain't part of it. The fan shroud does have a hole cutout for a sensor to peek into it, and two spots on the fan for magnet mounting. Suit yourself. The sensor bracket might need to be fabricated, not sure.....cause I don't use it.

After the fan is RIGHT, take the clutch and insert it into the fan hub, and using ONE of the FOUR buttonhead screws, pull it almost tight. Use the indicator to check runout. Remember .002 is the target.....and if it is higher, remove the bolt, turn the clutch 90 degrees and try again. If it is below .002, then using blue locktite, install the other three remaining bolts into the clutch. Not TOO tight. Check runout. Still there?? Then remove the first one, locktite it and put it in. Check runout.

I got .0015 both times I did this. A BIG thanks to Billme for the tips on how and what and why. Credit given where credit due. You ARE the MAN, Bill......

Remove the engine assembly from the vise. Your DONE, SON !!

The next thing you need to do is face the muffler header and muffler flange. A FLAT surface, a light grit of sandpaper (180-220) and some elbow action. You want the surface to be completely flat. You can tell by the color change on the surface.
The header is installed onto the motor at this point. I used blue locktite on these bolts. If you have access to a heat gun, now is a good time to use it.....get the header bolts started, and heat up the header. Pull the bolts snug with the header hot. Might save you some grief later on....

Install the muffler. Now. The 4 socket head screws from the header to muffler come in from the ENGINE side.....and it can be a chore to do this after the engine is installed. I also cut down the short side of a single allen wrench for this step. Made life MUCH nicer. I used red silicone high temp gasket maker between the mating surfaces. It squeezes out AND IN, so be mindful of how much. Just a nice film on the mating parts. Use Blue locktite on the bolts and get it tightened up.
You WILL tighten them again after a couple of flights. Bet on it. Keep that allen wrench handy......

AFTER the muffler is secured, then install the upper fan shroud. It looks metal, but it is glass. Fit perfect. Set the engine/clutch/muffler assembly aside. Admire it.....cause it is going to be the highlight of your day to get that done.

<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>
Landing gear bolt holes......I used an aftermarket set on mine, and this heli has an odd spacing. The stock ones supplied with the kit are low profile with a spacer to elevate the heli......no knuckle-dragging allowed.
The stock gear needed to be drilled......might be a good idea to do this before mounting the lower side frames/engine to the bottom plate. This was the only thing that didn't line up in the entire kit. I notified Century of the problem, and word is they are making a drilling fixture to correct this at the California facility.

Lower frames/engine mount plate. Press ahead according to the manual. The phillips head screws that hold the engine to the bottom plate should be blue locktited. Mine went together VERY well....all the holes jumped right into position when the next part was put on....

The spacer to keep the fuel tank was a little long on my kit.....what you want is SOME pressure on the tank saddles of the lower frames. Mine were bowing out at the bottom more than I wanted.......a quick trip to my belt sander had it going MY way. Oh, and rushing for water too......that thing looks plastic but it is aluminum.......HOT !!
03-29-2004 Over year old.
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AGRAV8
rrProfessor
Location: Mosquito Coast......Houston Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Indeed, Tom.......

You need to PLAN out where your going to put the fittings on the fuel tank and how your going to route the fuel line. I used tygon, F4040 for the main fuel lines to the carb (1/8 inch ID) and 3/32 ID for the vent line. There are only 3 lines on my ship, a main supply (attached to the clunk) a return from the carb, and a smaller vent line. Get 3 feet of each.
The clunk they supply is OK. The one Billme turned me onto is OUTSTANDING. All of $3.00 worth. It is a STENS 610-381 pickup/filter that is normally used in chainsaws. Let me tell you, that thing VACUUMS a tank dry......

<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>
I used the smaller ID fuel tubing to assist snaking the fittings thru the tank and into the holes I drilled to install the fittings. Also, be mindful of the canopy position and possible pinch points from it on your fittings. I put my holes in after I could install the canopy and check for clearance. I avoided the seam line in the tank.....also didn't get too close to a wall, as I don't want any leaks. Remember, this thing sleeps inside the house....and heli-potty marks on the carpet is a NO-NO.

How do I fuel?? I pull the return line from the carb and go in there. Slip it back on, no problems. Oh, be SURE to have several loops in the vent tube, and the exit point should be towards the rear of the heli. Don't want that fancy electronic stuff getting a bath WHEN YOU FLIP IT !
03-29-2004 Over year old.
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AGRAV8
rrProfessor
Location: Mosquito Coast......Houston Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Final assembly......

Lots written on the eCCPM setup of the Predator. I've already spent more time writing this than I did putting the darn thing together. Yeah, I type S L O W.
Make up the upper and lower frames. Install mainshaft, lock collar, and swashplate. I use a min air swashplate leveling tool to set up my servo's to the swash.
Get your radio installed, tail boom stuff taken care of....and I suggest you look at some stiffer tail blades if you intend to push the machine, and last but not least.....the carb linkage. Without getting too far off, here is where mine fell when I set it up......

With the servo at WIDE OPEN, set the arm on it at the 8 O'clock position. At throttle cut position, the horn on the carb is around 4:30 position. My ATV's are darn close to 110 on both sides.

I personally suggest a governor on this heli. With the power and gearing of the engine, high headspeeds can be easily attained. Be smart about it....the engine doesn't seem to be turning that high....but the head sure is. If you don't get a governor, then be darn sure that you have a tach available and an assistant. I run 1700-1800-1850 on MY gv-1. Be sure not to exceed 1850 on woodies. I have the Rotortech 700 carbon blades on mine.

My throttle curve (curve, hell !) on a 9Z is as follows......YOURS WILL VARY......but this gives you an idea about this engine/pipe setup....
(Pitch curve -11, 0, +11.5, set for a 3/4 stick hover in all modes)

0, 15, 19, 20, 21, 21, 22 (mid stick zero pitch), 22, 25, 38 (hover) 56, 73, 100.

I called Bill the other day...we compared Throttle curve point numbers. We are within 2 points all the way across. I had not seen his curve before. Tells ya something. Pretty darn close, huh !

I'm not going to open the subject of carb selection, needle settings, oil mix ratio's. Plenty of opinions about that already. Read the owners manual from Zenoah. Ask a friend. Email Horizonhobbies.com
I will share what I have and run, but ......
THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY WHAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU AND YOUR MACHINE.

I have a 231 from a previous heli. This engine is equipped with the Walbro WT-643 carb. Not the same setup Zenoah is selling today. It was at the gallon and a half mark when pulled. So, it is broken in......some.

Amsoil 100:1 synthetic lube (the OLD stuff......can't say about the new formula) Mixed 2.5 OZ to the gallon of Ozark Camper fuel. Coleman lantern fuel is basically the same. After the 2 gallon mark, I'm going to read the plug and I anticipate 2 OZ to the gallon after that. Want to stay safe?? Follow the manufacturers directions.


If I come up with more ideas or suggestions, I'll let you guys know. Ask questions....via PM or here. Comments welcome.

I will say this. After owning a vario, several xcells......this is the most fun and responsive gasser I've had the pleasure of building and flying. Thanks, Century......I'm headed back into the line for another one soon......

James
03-29-2004 Over year old.
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Lift
Elite Veteran
Location: Houston, TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		AGRAV8,
With the 6mm Hex bolt that I got from Ace Hardware for the fan shround I only had to tap the fan a few times with a dead blow hammer and I got the runout down to .0015 . When I put the clutch on I got .0005

So guys...when AGRAV8 says beat on the fan please use you noodle. You don't have to go get a sledge. Just hit it squarely with a piece of wood with light blows. Your basically tapping it on.. If your not getting results then turn the fan 30 degrees and try again.

The key is to get a replacement bolt but do try the one in the kit first. You might get lucky!
03-29-2004 Over year old.
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hpais
Senior Heliman
Location: Sao Paulo, SP - Brazil

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Awesome Post

James,

Thanks for the great post. This one I am saving, printing and keeping at the building bench next to the Predator Gasser when it shows up.

It should be an addendum to Ray's... book.
03-30-2004 Over year old.
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Boiler
Heliman
Location: Richardson, TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		AGRAV8,

I sourced the bolts you recommended for attaching the fan to the motor shaft. First question, you recommended getting a bolt 20-25 mm long. Am I missing something? The stock bolt is only 15 mm long. A 20-25 mm bolt is too long. Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks,
Boiler
03-30-2004 Over year old.
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AGRAV8
rrProfessor
Location: Mosquito Coast......Houston Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		your fine...

the maximum length is 25 MM from one end to the other.....this was to help folks that didn't have a good assortment of hardware to find one. 15 MM thread should be ok, I have a 20 in mine with clearance to 25 MM.

Glad you guys find some utility with this post. Like I said, took longer to write than to actually do.

The manual that Century did up for this machine is actually very good, in relation to what some manuals are.

BTW, I build this without opening the manual. After build up, I went into the manual to see if there were any glaring issues. THAT is how to critique a build manual.

For those folks that are not in a location with good access to some of the hardware mentioned, PM me directly. I might put together some hardware "goodie bags" for you guys if enough folks need one.

Jared: Thanks for the compliment. I don't know if Century guys are watching this or not. If they asked politely, I would be more than happy to allow them to include this post along with their manual in the kits. I've been waiting a LONG time for this machine.....and I'm very impressed with it. I just want other guys that are interested or have bought one to have the best chance at being a success with it.

James
03-30-2004 Over year old.
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Boiler
Heliman
Location: Richardson, TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		AGRAV8,

Can you please fill me in on the advantages of the stator gator? This will be my first time using a GV1 and I'm not sure how the stator gator works. Is it easier to install on the 231?

Thanks,
Boiler
03-31-2004 Over year old.
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AGRAV8
rrProfessor
Location: Mosquito Coast......Houston Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Sure

As I mentioned, the Century lower fan shroud has a hole on the exhaust side (if I remember correctly) that you can aim aim a sensor at the fan. Optical sensors would require that most of the fan bottom be painted black, leaving a silver (reflective) surface for the IR to reflect back from. You could also attach magnets to the underside of the fan and use a Futaba stock magnetic field sensor, but these are not noted for longevity.....either way, you have a bracket to attach, a sensor to align, magnets to worry about lining up on or if they got slung off.....you get the general idea. More stuff to worry about. HEY ! Wait, folks.....got ya covered here.
Entre' Stator Gator gg-23 pickup. This unit is small (maybe an inch and a quarter long, about a quarter inch thick and 3/4 inch wide) that has 3 leads coming from it. One lead is equipped with a normal futaba/jr style connector that plugs directly into the SENSOR port of the GV-1 controller. The other two wires (that are shielded together except for the last 3 inches or so) run back to the rear underside of the engine. One lead (the BLACK ONE FROM THE STATOR GATOR) connnects to a ground on the engine.....and since the frames are a ground point on the metal Predator, I attached mine at the lower part of the rear frame. The other wire is RED FROM THE STATOR GATOR and it attaches to the BLACK WIRE coming from the primary coil. That lead is usually either unused or tied into a momentary push button to kill the engine. The Stator Gator uses the pulse from this wire to trigger (it is optically coupled to eliminate RF back into the radio) and give the GV-1 a "count" signal.
The question I had was will it interfere with the radio. Actually, my stator gator is on top of my fuel tank, and is within a half inch of the GY 601 sensor and the tail servo (9251). I've had no glitches.....

ONLY DIFFERENCE IN SETUP of the GV-1........your SENSOR screen will always show ZERO. This because the "gator only barks a pulse when the motor is running.

SO. After the explaination on how, what, why......let me answer your question.

YES. The Stator Gator IS the best solution on the 231 and the easiest to install. Give Tom a call. Order it from his website. Just get ya one. Oh, and tell him I sent you

James
03-31-2004 Over year old.
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Lift
Elite Veteran
Location: Houston, TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Wish I had one for my Throttle Jockey!!!

Although, I hear that it will work just fine as long as the engine RPM is above 9500 which in the Pred Gasser's case on 5.8 ratio is 1637. That is well below what the motor is going to run happiest on that ratio anyhow. So I've been thinking on getting one.....
03-31-2004 Over year old.
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zoom
Elite Veteran
Location: Galveston, Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		For you lucky gasser experts

Just working up my wish list for the gasser. Since the plastic tail blades are subject to coning with the gasser, would the CF 105mm, which came with my original SE kit, do the trick, or should I consider the 115mm, or 120mm?

Which would be better to go with the 231, or PUH 260 when its all said and done?
03-31-2004 Over year old.
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AGRAV8
rrProfessor
Location: Mosquito Coast......Houston Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Zoom

My initial flight testing in calm conditions the plastic ones were OK for a starter set. In high winds (more that most folks would go out to PLAY in.....) the plastic ones would "cone" as the tail rotor fought to keep the heli straight. I grabbed up a set of Rotortech105's.......Payton got his mitts on a set of 115's (its good to be a REP, I guess ) and he is lovin them. I will run the 105's for a while and see how well they do.

Missed the question on powerplants the first time, sorry.......

I have the 231. I'm happy with it running on a 643 carb. The 260 is still being looked at. GO with WHAT YOU KNOW.
03-31-2004 Over year old.
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Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme

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Century Hawk - 50NX - Raven - Predator > Century Gasser Buildup-UPDATED Feb '06
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