RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - 50 cent motor in my HB = WOW!!

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e-Century Hummingbird - Swift > 50 cent motor in my HB = WOW!!

mpj220
Heliman
Location: N. Grafton, MA

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I got bored this evening and decided to see what I could do with my HB.

Battery is 2 cell 1200 etec.

I have been having a problem with breaking out of ground effect ever since I put the MS Hornet carbon blades on. I have the Orion Elite Modified motor with 12 tooth pinion. I suspected that it was loading to much and I ordered both 10 and 11 tooth pinions for it. Tower is a little slow with shipping and I got impatient this evening so... I decided to give a different motor a try. I bought these little Johnson motors from All Electronics at a whopping 50 cents each.

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-b...-189&type=store

I used the 12 tooth pinion (only one I have). I did have to get creative on mounting it. The holes were not far enough apart and also not tapped. So, out came the drill. I figured at 50 cents a piece, who cares if I kill it. After drilling a couple new holes, I threaded them the old fasioned way - cut the threads with the screws.

I did do a little current testing before trying it out. It is drawing a bit more current at full throttle than I would like - 6.2 amps. I hope that it will decrease when I get the other pinions. But, compared to the $50 Orion, OH MY GOD!!!
This thing would break ground effect before half throttle. I think full throttle will plant it in my ceiling. I have a DD tail and it can't keep up when I burp the throttle.
I am going to do more current testing tommorow. I am going to find out what the current draw is at hover and 3/4 throttle. I don't want to damage the etec's by drawing to much current.

Will keep you posted!!
Mark

01-28-2004 Over year old.

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MrFlyer
Heliman
Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada

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Please keep us posted. I've got a handfull of those motors and have thought they might work but never tried.

Chris

01-28-2004 Over year old.

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webshot
Heliman
Location: NorCal

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Sounds interesting but be careful, dont fry your speed controller.

01-28-2004 Over year old.

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mpj220
Heliman
Location: N. Grafton, MA

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I did a few tests.

At hover it draws 4 amps. That seem about in line for these hummingboard. I have been searching all over to find out what the max current these boards can take but, found nothing in writing. I did find a few threads discussing what combo people were running when the board smoked. Anyone know the specs on these?

I will expreriment with the other pinions after they arrive. I would imagine that the current will drop a bit with the smaller pinions. It will probably make the tail react quicker with throttle bursts. I know it will lose a bit of top end performance. I highly doubt I will ever need full throttle as it is.

I will be comparing it to a completely stock HB tomorrow. A friend just received a shiny new one today and we will be trimming it out tomorrow. I have nothing other than the Orion to compare to as that is how I bought mine used. There is no comparison. The 50 cents wins hands down!

All in all, I am very happy with this setup. I was getting quite dicouraged after the carbon blades arrived and the 2 cell etec wouldn't generate enough headspeed to break ground effect except at the beginning of the charge. It would climb out with the stock blades but took almost full throttle to do so. With this, I don't have enough ceiling for full throttle.

Mark

01-28-2004 Over year old.

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Silvashadow
Veteran
Location: Kent, UK

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mpj220, the specs given on the link you supplied are almost the same as for the Protech and Graupner 300 6V motors, just its in a flattend can. I use the 300 6V and, yes, there is loads of power. I rum an 8t pinion. At 50 cents each the motors you have found look to good to be true. Must send off for some now

01-28-2004 Over year old.

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darkside212
Senior Heliman
Location: Milwaukee, WI USA

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I Just ordered 8. mpj220 how long did shipping take?

01-29-2004 Over year old.

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blueeyedpop
Senior Heliman
Location: westlake village, CA

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I feel so blasted fortunate

I go there every other week, I'll be picking up a dozen. Almost bought some when i was there last weekend.

My only caution is that sometimes motors freezing up will ruin speed controls.

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mpj220
Heliman
Location: N. Grafton, MA

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Shipping is pretty fast. I am in Massachusetts and I think it took 4 days or so to get them in my hand. They stock all kinds of goodies such as jst connectors, LED's, motors, power supplies and so on....

We have been using these motors in fan fold electrics. Geared 6.6 to 1 it will spin a 12x8 gws prop and pull 5 amps on 2 lipos. They fit in a gws 100 drive with a little wrap of tape to pinch them in. Like I said in the first post, you will need to drill and tap holes to fit it in the HB. Well worth the hassle though. I think it took all of 10 minutes to complete the swap. I still need to solder a capacitor to prevent any rf noise.

A quick update: I have been keeping track of flight times today. 79 minutes and everything is still in one piece. Motor has been getting warm, could use a heat sink. The heat sink will cost much more than the motor

. Still waiting on the tower shipment with the pinions.

blueeyedpop,
you are fortunate - I wish they had a local office here. They stock some great stuff at awesome prices. I would be there a couple times a week.

Mark

01-29-2004 Over year old.

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Gazoo
Veteran
Location: Maryland

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Quote
I suspected that it was loading to much and I ordered both 10 and 11 tooth pinions for it.

I was using an 8T with my Orion and MS CF blades, but the motor did not last long. A high frequency speed controller should be used with the Orion to get the longest life out of it.

01-29-2004 Over year old.

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mpj220
Heliman
Location: N. Grafton, MA

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OK - latest info.

I got the pinions in today from Tower.

I put the 10 tooth on. Seems to be perfect. I am running the GWS EDP50-XC on the tail. Blades are MS Carbon Fiber for Hornet. The tail is able to react to throttle bursts.

As expected, current is down to a nice safe area now - I only checked full throttle amp draw. 5.29 at full throttle with the etec 1200 2s1p.
I fudged a heatsink on the motor last night. After a 15 minute flight, motor was warm but, still could hold it in my hand.

A friend was over today with his new HB. I forgot to check what the stock pinion had for teeth. He did dork the tail rotor so, we put a DD on his. After seeing the way mine performed, he is putting the Johnson motor on his. We will experiment with pinions for the stock blades. I would expect 9 or 10 tooth at the most.

I would definitely recommend this combo to anyone looking for a low-cost big performance setup. You do need a little creative skill to drill, tap, solder. I also did need to dremel out the slot on the frame a bit to fit the pinion I got from tower. Pinion is an HPI Micro RS-4 10 tooth steel.

Motor - $0.50
Pinion - $3.89
4-40 bolts free (found them on bench - cut down with dremel)

total $4.39 plus shipping

I am going to try to get my wife to take a video of it flying. That should be interesting. I can hear it now - WHEN DID YOU BUY THIS????

Will keep you posted on the stock blade setup.

Mark

01-29-2004 Over year old.

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jaged
Heliman
Location: Vancouver BC Canada

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Found this on the same site in the first post. Think they will work for the tail motor? If so, we can have replacement motors for both main and tail for only $1.25

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-b...-166&type=store

01-31-2004 Over year old.

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alanhsu
Key Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

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to mpj220

What kind of time are you getting?

15min? longer?

01-31-2004 Over year old.

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alanhsu
Key Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

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BTW, aren't these motor @ 3Vdc?

I mean...if you have a etec 7.2 V

isn't too much throttle going to kill it?

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alanhsu
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Location: Vancouver, Canada

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http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-b...-165&type=store

what about this one?

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mpj220
Heliman
Location: N. Grafton, MA

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jaged,
I may order some of those on my next purchase to see if they are suitable for the tail.

alanhsu,
I set my timer for 15 minutes each flight. I am too afraid of killing my lipos by going more. I just ordered a battsignal from www.battsignal.com to be safe. That should let me get more time while feeling safe. Even at 15 minutes, it shows no signs of dropping power. As fo longevity, I have around 2.5 hours or so of flying on it now. Plus, we have been using these in some planes. I have run 9 cell nicad's in a pizza box hovering full throttle and they have survived.

BTW - I also added 3 ultrabright LED's on it. I was flyin in total darkness in the den last night! I can't wait for the warm weather so I can fly it outside at night.

I am fairly new to lipos so not too sure how far I can push them. I check voltage immidiately after a 15 minute flight and it reads 7.1 to 7.2 volts. That is not under any load.

Mark

01-31-2004 Over year old.

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alanhsu
Key Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

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For the Etec 1200 7.2V

How low can the voltage be so it is still safe?

anybody know?

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jeffs555
Senior Heliman
Location: North Carolina

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Jaged,
I ran one of those 3 volt FF-N20PN motors on the tail when my stock tailmotor died. Outside, it is physically the same as the stock tail motor. It worked fine, but reports say lifetime will be much shorter than the stock motor. I was concerned about reliability, and replaced it with a B2C. I only flew the FF-N20PN for a few flights and it was still working. It did seem to get much hotter than the stock motor. Here is a discussion about using this motor on the tail.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...threadid=133834

Here is a thread with someone using 2 of these motors on the tail. Supposedly has more tail authority and motors run cooler.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...t=n0+tail+motor

Jeff

01-31-2004 Over year old.

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jeffs555
Senior Heliman
Location: North Carolina

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alanhsu,
For any LiPoly, the minimum safe voltage is 3 volts per cell, so for your 2-cell pack it would be 6 volts. The actual voltage where damage occurs varies with different manufacturers, but 3volts/cell seems to be safe for all of them.

Jeff

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alanhsu
Key Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

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that's odd then...

I get around 7.3 Volt

then I can't really hover anymore

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jeffs555
Senior Heliman
Location: North Carolina

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Six volts is just the minimum safe voltage for a 2-cell Lipoly. Most stock hummingbirds won't fly at 6 volts, so you usually don't have to worry about overdischarging 2-cell packs if you quit when they won't climb anymore. The minimum safe voltage for a 3-cell pack is 9 volts, and most HB's will fly below 9 volts, so you really have to watch with a 3-cell pack or you can ruin it by flying too long and letting the pack voltage get too low.

Jeff

01-31-2004 Over year old.

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e-Century Hummingbird - Swift > 50 cent motor in my HB = WOW!!

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