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heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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If a flybarless system were to factor average amp draw by each servo, physical performance it measures via sensors, current settings, current equipment against local weather (via your phone's internet and Bluetooth) over a few flights the flybarless units algorithms could determine how many amps by a given servo equated to how much movent for your set up.

So as a given servo approaches age based failure and its performance lags (can be felt by the pilot but can be obscured by gyros)
The flybarless unit could be set to react to the perceived failure per your request.

It could be as unobtrusive as a warning light when you land. Which you can choose to ignore and the unit would continue monitoring and quickly determine whether the perceived performance pattern persisted or passed. The unit would factor in weather as said, but the effects as related to performance would be difficult for even the most advanced algorithm. So the more adverse the weather the more likely the fluke.

Goblin! where have you been all my life?

10-08-2016 06:21 PM
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icanfly

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ontario

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it's a great idea, you'll have to sample the average amp pull from each servo in the fbl unit. On a heli I currently have I don't know which servo is going bad. The servo motors are coreless and it has tiny brushes internally that can wear out. As they wear the motors are working harder and possibly not evenly throughout the revolutions. The suspect servo in a group would theoretically cause amp spikes and shut off the fbl unit momentarily but just enough to screw the heli into the ground, doh.

Yes we'd all like to know when a servo goes wonky before it causes a total fbl unit reset or other dangerous activity like a flyaway (this happened to me with a coax long ago and a near flyaway with a larger coax repair I worked on briefly). It would be absolutely nice to know before a servo takes a heli to hell.

A test in referencing a failing servo should be ahead of resetting a fbl unit instead should indicate what servo is sub par. A simple series of pitch pumps with blades on the bench and some hand applied pressure to each servo to stall each should readily make the performance info available.

Or, using a device that can tell the same info but is an outboard scanning meter for amp use you can plug each servo into and try to stall while taking readings. Onboard would be convenient.

If the fbl unit could detect what servo is going faulty and shut it off effectively sticking the horn at 0 pitch even though no gears are broken you could still fly in appreciably on two servos without crashing, tail is a slightly different story.

10-09-2016 04:27 PM
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Heli_Splatter

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Silver Spring, MD by way of Sidney, Ne - USA

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So, you have an idea there.. predict the servo's failure. Nice idea, but you don't have an interface to display the information currently. One blinking light on that electronic box blends with all the others blinking? So you don't allow unit to power up and fly... that is going to cause false positives.

What about the cost? What about the war you will likely cause if one brand of servos consistently is reported as defective by by Brand Y FLB unit?

What is the cost of the predictive unit? Maybe it is worth it on a large helicopter, but what about the 450's of the world?

Offer the unit, I will certainly consider it.

10-10-2016 03:35 PM
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heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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Splatter
Spot on with your considerations.

Not a product I'm capable of producing.
Things I think of get made all the time when I don't tell anyone. So I figure if I mention it....

The way I'm seeing it, there no way it could be a stand alone. It would have to be built into the fbl unit to factor performance, equipment, amp draw, and weather.

Weather is the real wild card. Wind, humidity, temp, and air pressure all have their effects on performance.

Goblin! where have you been all my life?

10-13-2016 12:08 AM
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RM3

Elite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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part of the problem is you have to survey alot of information from manufacturers servos such as MTBF (mean time between failures)... do they even test for this data and what standards do they adhere to if they even do.

this is where you run into a very slippery slope...

Its bad enough manufacturers of LIPO packs overstate C ratings...

Not worth it for hobby grade items IMHO... you would be surprised the cost increase a simple blinking light would add to a FBL system to indicate such a capability should it be even 50% accurate.
It would have to be built into the fbl unit to factor performance, equipment, amp draw, and weather.
Weather is the real wild card. Wind, humidity, temp, and air pressure all have their effects on performance.
and each of these sensors would require a very complex algorithm (possibly another processor to run it) to even guess when a servo will fail not to mention added complexity and additional cost...

Just Look at Futaba... they have yet to make an integrated RX/FBL system... just not worth it business wise even though alot of us would love an all-in-one.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

10-13-2016 12:42 AM
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dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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A lot of expense, additional power usage, additional complexity for very little payback.

Servos wearing out is way down on the list of things that make your heli go bump in the night. Assuming they will tell you ahead of time by some predictable means isn't all that realistic.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

10-13-2016 04:54 AM
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Pistol_Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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The only person here that I have read anything about keeping track on servo hour usage is Rbort.

According to his usage on gassers, its in the tune of about 300 hours when he decides to change them before they fail. Doing a search will give you which servo he uses.

Some will log those hours here on RR (news n politics) way before their heli even gets a fraction of that.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

10-13-2016 01:35 PM
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icanfly

Elite Veteran

ontario

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peculiar, everyone is thinking it's a high tech solution when, could it not be possible to monitor a servo with an led light on either - or + wires from the servo in unison with a resistor and or diode that would allow normal amperage but flicker or even stay lit if current surpasses normal levels. Or, conversely stay lit while the servo is healthy and prematurely fade or die when the servo isn't 100%?

In the speaker world some manufacturers put a projector lamp inside the speaker box to burn off excessive current so as to protect the drivers from frying. In the case of a servo it could be thought of in reverse where it's the fbl unit that is saved from a servo pulling too much current as it degrades in performance.

Not everything is as simple as a whole new pc board populated with ic's, resistors' diodes, and caps, a ph degree in electronic programming and the employment of a chipset writer spending massive hours of scripting firmware extensively testing through trial and error before a little extra box to protect my servos becomes the norm on next gen helis equipped with with "servo safe" technology. Life is, must be, sooooo simple, lol.

Hmm, I like leds on my servos, they take nano watts to power, imagine my heli lit with led's on each servo? beeyatch baby, "that" is a winner (the ship I should be patenting, jeepers).

lol.

Besides op, it comes at a time when I cant fly my 300 due to a servo drawing too many amps and shutting my fbl unit off and it' crashes making matters worse as I cannot figure which servo is suspect so do I replace them all? None of the servos is 300hrs old but all have been crashed several times,

SOOOOO?

edit------------------------------------------------------------

I laff, lauph, ohh yeah,,,, LAUGH out loud.

Coming back to this next morning I realize in one reply the respondent want active telemetrics, fair enough. A gyro mfg can decide how to activate monitoring to and from each servo I suppose, absolutely a more complex way to gauge servo behavior and output, will definitely require some logic to direct read outs via active sensing and telemetrics. Maybe this is the newest little gizmo a gyro/tx manufacture could implement on next gen product.

Is it worth it? If the bells and whistles protect your investment just one step higher than in the times we live without, it would be something worthy of consideration especially with larger models and especially where a person owns enough helis they loose account of each helis hours in use. Then the type of actual servo use would also dictate the lifespan as well as hourly use, it's a great idea, yes I would likee.

GO FOR IT

10-13-2016 02:29 PM
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