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Four Stroker

Elite Veteran

Atlanta

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I have ordered from Amazon a M10 x 0.5 tap and die in separate transactions.

1) The tap looks normal BUT is not sized correctly - CNC programming disaster ??? Useless.

2) The die is old and rusty and obviously poorly made. BUT it does screw down on TREX pinions. May need sharpening but should work to make pinions. 30mm OD won't fit my holder. Hand work.

Not a really good history. But for $10 each it was worth a try.

09-30-2016 10:57 PM
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MartyH

rrProfessor

USA

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Taps and dies are one area I would never work with junk and that stuff sounds like junk. Sharp, well defined and full depth threads are a must.

10-01-2016 01:02 AM
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Four Stroker

Elite Veteran

Atlanta

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Thanks for the PM's.

I gave up and used the Glenn Goodlett pinion making technique.

10-01-2016 02:56 PM
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Four Stroker

Elite Veteran

Atlanta

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Well I got around to using my looks like crap die. It worked fine. Holding the die and part was a challenge since my die holder only does 13/16 and 1 inch. 30mm is about 1 & 3/16 but I don't have one of those.

So I guess the price was worth it in this case. $15 including postage from China. I assume this die was made from a die blank by tapping and hardening. Then each side beveled and the edges sharpened ? Everywhere else is covered in brown gunk. Any of you guys real machinist ? The only place I found to make one in the USA wanted $155.

I don't understand the under and over size specifications. The places that I buy from don't give you a choice anyway !

10-03-2016 05:45 PM
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RM3

Elite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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Enco... now MSC has the tap... high quality HSS, ground threads.

the die is a bit of a problem... my usual sources for high quality machining tools dont list a M10 x 0.5 die.

its best to use split round dies... they allow you to custom tailor the fit of the parts... for small bolts or very fine threads this is critical.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

10-03-2016 06:05 PM
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Four Stroker

Elite Veteran

Atlanta

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That looks like the exact tap that I have. What I don't understand is the over and under size specifications and what I would do with them if I knew. None of my sources give you a choice !

From the web, D3 should mean 0.0015" oversize to give an easy to assemble fit. When I tapped a clutch bell that I made and screwed in the Align pinion, it was sloppy loose and would move back and forth many thou. I did not consider it usable.

And yes the die is hard to find !

10-03-2016 07:06 PM
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RM3

Elite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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the problem with alot of import stuff from china in terms of taps and dies and even drill bits is the quality and tolerances... they really suck in most cases. the drill bits are the worst, they are soft and dont match up to the drill diameter specs of good brands. most taps made from carbon steel (like those at lowes, Home depot and sears) are garbage and are meant only for restoration of threads rather than cutting new threads.

The latest crap I have run into from china were the gear cutters... they claim to be HSS (high speed Steel)... but when cutting even mild free machining steel they quickly dull... they are good for anything softer than steel, which is ok for me as my gears are brass, aluminum and plastic.

so for steel gears I have to spend the big bucks on made in USA HSS or cobalt cutters, which cost 3 times as much... but are worth every penny in comparison to the soft import stuff.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

10-03-2016 07:53 PM
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Glenn Goodlett

Senior Heliman

California

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I can't take credit for the technique.

I got the idea from Tim Jones.

10-03-2016 09:33 PM
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Four Stroker

Elite Veteran

Atlanta

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Well it was a good idea !

My unhardened Align steel gear is really chewed up and I fly off of grass. Not as bad as the original Concept 30 aluminum pinion that you guys may remember. I guess heli's are not expected to last that long these days. I remember press fit bearing blocks and hardened pinions from long ago.

10-03-2016 10:55 PM
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jhartsock3

Senior Heliman

Greenwood, IN

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Class of fit is measured by pitch diameter. And the lower the number the tighter the fit of the thread. But that is only true if the Id thread (hole), and the od thread (bolt). Are of the same class. Also drill choice and od bolt diameter have a lot to do with it. Almost all tap and die charts are based on 75% thread ingagement. H3 taps. If you want tighter fits you will actually have to look up drill size and od material size to get the tighter fit. So be cafeful using Chinese taps and dies as there hit and miss and mostly miss. Enco and msc both sell higher quality but resonable priced taps and dies for the average person.

10-04-2016 04:12 AM
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