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Scorpion Power AlignRC
Grimracer

Veteran

Eau Claire WI

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If I might..

I understand there is a "Gentlemen's Agreement" that states if you win the 518 NATS you are to retire the helicopter.

I would like to open up a dialog that talks about this and what some of you think..

Could this be causing "SOME" to back away from the event?
Could this be causing "SOME" to Want To Enter?

I have a take on this but will hold off for the time.

Regards

Grimracer

Michael J Zaborowski

08-29-2016 07:01 PM
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CoachE

Senior Heliman

Cincinnati, ohio -usa

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personally i say back away. only because im still building my bird and i don't have deep pockets. after it is all said and done should i ever win with my heli. i would want some one with even better flying skills to challenge me to get better. lets face it there are few who can afford or even have time to build a new competition quality scale helicopter every 1, 2,or even 3 years.

if we want ti grow we need to think of ways to encourage not discourage.

Get !T - Got !T - Perfect !T

08-29-2016 07:51 PM
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old nitroman

Senior Heliman

Naples florida

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In the 80s there was a guy enter the same heli year after year in scale, was a nice ship but everyone was tired of it.

E5s and E7se, Roban bell 222 800 superscale,450 bell 4 bladed head,gobby 380,180cfx

08-29-2016 08:01 PM
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Copter Doctor

rrProfessor

Enterprise/ft.rucker ,al- home of army aviation

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My personal thing is I will compete with the same machine a few times in the same contest. If it takes a first place spot, I retire it from that contest but will still fly it in another contest until it places first or I get tired of it.
I didn't take part in the nats this year because the machine I plan to fly wasn't finished and I wasn't going to rush it. sometimes it takes a year or more just to get one done and flying comfortably to compete.

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft

08-29-2016 08:26 PM
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payne1967

Elite Veteran

uk

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if you win
step down from the next years comp with the model
there after use it in the comp until you win again with the model
if you win all the comps in one year with a certain model
then judge the next years events

member of save the flybar foundation

08-29-2016 09:59 PM
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darrelluh1b

Senior Heliman

Dalton Ga

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Where all of this started when one guy took first for 4 years. Same model, This guy was a pro he made his living building and flying R/C helicopters. All he wanted was to have more wins. During those years all we hope for was 2nd. I think if he would have built new models that would have changed. The winners after that won and then retired the model the pilots choice. For me my model took a 4th and two 2nds then 1st I feel it was time.
Darrell

08-29-2016 10:56 PM
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Grimracer

Veteran

Eau Claire WI

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Now my turn.. I am kind of new to this.. and I hear allot of "we need new guys" talk..

"Entry's are down.. what can we do to bring up the numbers"

Ya know.. stuff like that.. so...

I for one FULLY appose the you win you retire the machine "gentlemen's agreement". I also FULLY appose the you can fly it forever year after year..

I would like to see If I can get support to wright a proposal to instate a 3 in a row rule. IF.. you win 3 IN A ROW. You MUST retire the machine.

Here is my thought.. I cannot (likely others too) afforded to build a new machine year after year.. IF.. BIG IF.. I was to win the 518 nats with a new build I would feel pressure to retire that machine under the current "thought" system. Look.. we lost a good competitor due to this this year. To me this was a HUGE BLOW to the event.

I do however feel that I "Could" BIG COULD.. afford to build a new machine every 3 or so years. This gives me time and money to do so.

Thoughts?

Grim

Michael J Zaborowski

08-30-2016 04:23 PM
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darrelluh1b

Senior Heliman

Dalton Ga

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During the Dalton event there will be discussions about what rule changes that need to be made. I feel this will be the largest group of scale builders to get feed back from. Maybe we can get some input from the guys on the west coast.
Darrell

08-30-2016 06:04 PM
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TaylorDrain

Senior Heliman

California

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Seems like a lot of drama with the scale competitions over the years. For me this has been very discouraging and has kept me and others I know from competing. Hopefully things can get sorted out and start attracting new people to compete.

Taylor

A.K.A TayloMadeUAS.Inc

08-30-2016 06:37 PM
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Grimracer

Veteran

Eau Claire WI

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And.. I feel this might be one of the things that helps chill out the drama..

right now there is no real rule.. leave em gray and you get drama.

I have more questions.. but will let them lay until after Dalton.

Have a great event!

Grim

Michael J Zaborowski

08-30-2016 07:02 PM
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Salesmanheliboy

Veteran

Nashville, TN

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I'm not a recent "scale" competitor but I have done it before.

I think the issue can be solved by virtue of "Sumo-Protest"

Watch at YouTube

We can get the suites and let them have at it. Wit the heat in Muncie this year, it won't take long to have a winner

What do you think Darrell?

Tim

Futaba - Kontronik -SAB Helicopters - GensAce -http://rotorworld.co.uk/

08-30-2016 08:24 PM
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darrelluh1b

Senior Heliman

Dalton Ga

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Taylor
PM what you are about.
Darrell

08-30-2016 08:56 PM
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darrelluh1b

Senior Heliman

Dalton Ga

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Tim
I like the suits idea.
Darrell

08-30-2016 08:58 PM
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darrelluh1b

Senior Heliman

Dalton Ga

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Grim
I under stand in the boating world the CD has the last word and that is the end.
Darrell

08-30-2016 09:04 PM
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Grimracer

Veteran

Eau Claire WI

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In the boat world there is no limit.. you can race the same boat with no limits on number of times.

I have boats that are YEARS old and still winning races.

The CD cannot tell you where to drive the boat (like go around that dead boat on the outside!) and he can not tell you how many times you can race that hull.

I get a really good hull setup and I hope it lasts years. This includes our 1/8 scale boats.

Still. I can see a 3 year deal in Helis likely working.

Keep me posted.

Grim

Michael J Zaborowski

08-30-2016 09:47 PM
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darrelluh1b

Senior Heliman

Dalton Ga

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Maybe I did not ask the question correct. If there is a protest how is it took care of ? I would like to hear your ideas if not on line maybe a P.M.
Darrell

08-30-2016 10:52 PM
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Grimracer

Veteran

Eau Claire WI

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some notes.. not sure this helps..

Most of this has to do with hull "Shape" and motor displacement.

Protests: Equipment and Racing Rules
1. Equipment protests are covered in section K, Technical Standards.
2. Racing Rules
a. In all sporting events, situations develop that require judgment calls or decisions on the
part of contest officials and all such decisions made herein shall be FINAL. There is no
protest of racing rules. (ONLY equipment may be protested.)
b. Continued verbal protests, harsh language and/or other abuse, either direct or indirect of
any contest officials shall be considered unsportsmanlike conduct and will be just cause
to bar that contestant or crewman from any further participation in that contest.

Then to section K (I know its allot, sorry)

IV - PROTESTS
The contestant, by entering a contest or Record Trial, automatically grants the right of inspection by Protest
Procedure. Should a contestant refuse inspection, the Protest will be judged valid and penalties will be issued
as outlined in “Protest Fees and Illegal Equipment Fines”, this section.
A. If an engine or hull is protested during or after a contest, it will be handled as follows:
1. During a contest
a. The equipment will be allowed to run only until the Protest can be evaluated.
b. The equipment will be immediately measured and reviewed by a Committee made up of
the Contest Director, IMPBA District Director (if available), and two disinterested IMPBA
members.
c. All reviewing and measuring will be done in conjunction with the "IMPBA Engine Rules"
as written. These rules are the law and the only grounds for Protest.
d. Protestor and owner or proxy must be notified, and can be present during the review.
e. If the Protest is upheld, and the equipment judged illegal, a written report outlining the
infraction ruling must be forwarded to the District Director and President within two days
of the Protest. Contest Director plus two Committee members must sign the report.
f. If for some reason the Committee cannot make a ruling, a written report, complete with
sketches, if necessary, will be forwarded to the IMPBA President who will distribute
copies to the Technical Committee for final judgment.
2. Protests After a Contest or Record Run
If for some reason information becomes available after a contest or Record Trial that would
have grounds for a Protest:
a. The person or persons processing this information are duty bound to forward in writing all
the details to their District Director and the President no later than 30 days after
publication of that record in the quarterly report.
b. The letter must contain the signature and IMPBA number of the writer.
c. Copies will be forwarded to the Technical Committee and the owner concerned.
d. The District Director will conduct an investigation and forward all findings to the Technical
Committee.
e. The ruling by the Technical Committee will be final.
B. Protest Fees and Illegal Equipment Fines
1. The Protestor shall pay a $5.00 Protest Fee.
2. If the Protest is denied, the fee will be retained by the host club to defray expenses.
3. If the Protest is upheld, and the equipment declared illegal, the Protestor will receive his
Protest fee back.
4. Fines for running illegal engines and hulls:
a. Offenses are cumulative in a calendar year and are chargeable to the owner.
1st offense $25.00
2nd offense $50.00 and suspension from competition for 1 year
3rd offense expulsion from organization
b. IMPBA General Office will record offenses and send a registered letter to the owner
requesting payment of fine.
c. Fine must be paid within 20 days of notification.
d. Non-payment will result in cancellation of all IMPBA privileges for the succeeding twelve
(12) months.

Michael J Zaborowski

08-31-2016 03:07 AM
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cobieg

Heliman

Florida

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Ok, so I am a lot confused. What does a boat race contest have to do with a scale heli contest? Two totally different things in my mind.
I like Copter Doctors idea, if I were ever to get that good to take a first place, then I would not use it again for THAT contest, but use it in another.

Ron

I didn't crash. I just ran out of airspeed, altitude, and ideas all at the same time!

08-31-2016 02:26 PM
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Grimracer

Veteran

Eau Claire WI

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It has very little except they are both contests..

Just to be clear.. Whatever the body of people want is what I want for the body of people. At the end of the day I just would like to do my part to better understand how to get more people competeting in RC scale Helis..

Some just bitch.. some make attempts to understand... some go further... not sure where I fall in this..lol

Lets fly!

Grim

Michael J Zaborowski

08-31-2016 03:32 PM
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darrelluh1b

Senior Heliman

Dalton Ga

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I think it is good to look at different events. Like Top Gun airplanes to see what works and maybe learn how to make things better.
Darrell

08-31-2016 05:08 PM
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