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Scorpion Power Thunder Power RC
Flyin for Jesus

Senior Heliman

Dana Point, Ca. 92629

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From only reading the last page here... I see a couple things.
A 6s 10,000mAh and a 12s 5,000mAh pack are both the same Watt Hours. With a pair of 6s 5000 packs, you can wire them in series making a 12s 5000 pack or you can wire them in parallel making them a 6s 10,000 pack. How can the power storage change from the exact same packs simply by switching a few wires around?

Second thing...saying 12s pack averaging 125 amps that each cell is carrying 10.4672% of the load is no way to measure any number of cells wired in series. They all carry 100% of the load. 125 amps is going through each cell.
If you take the same 2 6s 5000 packs from the above paragraph, with a series setup ( 12s ) all carry 100% but if you did wire them in parallel, you could say that each one is carrying 50% since of that 125a, each pack it contributing 62.5a of the total current. ( assuming identical pack IRs, wire lengths bla bla bla )

Okay, my contribution... Go on with the chlorophyl.

08-30-2016 03:21 PM
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Heli_Splatter

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Silver Spring, MD by way of Sidney, Ne - USA

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Chlorophyll???

Did you mean to say formaldehyde? "embalming fluid contains a mixture of formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde, methanol, and other solvents."

Now.. about the other...maybe you should read a bit of the thread. Strike 2 called.

08-30-2016 03:39 PM
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Flyin for Jesus

Senior Heliman

Dana Point, Ca. 92629

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08-30-2016 04:18 PM
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LaDon

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You are probably right on that to a point. I think the whole comparison was 1 6s pack compared to a 12s system. I think this whole thing has turned into such a mess. Point is that a guy has got an 85 amp draw average on his 6s system. Then after Richard corrected me we have an 80 amp draw on a 12s system. The load is less with the 12s system and also easier on batteries? Is that correct flying for Jesus? Which would actually be not quite the 10% difference but also the 80 amp one is mathed not measured

Team Jr

08-30-2016 08:00 PM
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Flyin for Jesus

Senior Heliman

Dana Point, Ca. 92629

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Now.. about the other...maybe you should read a bit of the thread. Strike 2 called.
I'll have to do that this evening

LaDon Your questions are 2 fold...
First running a single 6s pack means the heli will be lighter, and if its a heli setup to run 12s, your HS will be half so its more efficient because of the lower HS and lighter weight. But your 85Amp draw 6s heli will not fly like your 12s 80 amp heli.
Second, the lower the current draw the easier it is on the batteries --- 100% of the time.

08-30-2016 10:53 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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No no no don't confuse things with different pack weights or Wh. This has always been about the same Wh, 6s 10000 vs 12s 5000 (just to keep things simple to understand). Both setups have the same load on the cells therefore the same C rating packs would be required.

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-30-2016 11:00 PM
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Flyin for Jesus

Senior Heliman

Dana Point, Ca. 92629

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No no no don't confuse things with different pack weights or Wh. This has always been about the same Wh, 6s 10000 vs 12s 5000 (just to keep things simple to understand). Both setups have the same load on the cells therefore the same C rating packs would be required.
Alright... Then a heli running 12s ( 2 - 6s 5000mAh packs in series ) with a headspeed of X pulling 80 amps average.
That same heli running 6s ( 2 - 6s 5000mAh packs in parallel ) with either a gearing change or motor Kv change to achieve the same headspeed will pull 160 amps on average, or 80 amps from each pack.
Meaning in either setup, if your packs are good in one setup, they will be just as good in the other... If your packs lack performance in one setup, it will lack the same performance in the other.

Sorry, I still didn't read through the entire thread yet...

08-30-2016 11:57 PM
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LaDon

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Fort Dodge .Ia

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In typical Richard fashion tho his earlier posts were about a 6s 550 and then a 12s 700. Not a 6s 10000 700. But there is no way that even with a 6s 10000 700 you will get the same power. 22volts compared to 44volts will not make the same power. Never mind as Richard is back and there is no way in hell we can keep this straight. He changes the game every time someone proves him wrong. There have been several that have.

I do understand what you are saying tho but if it was such a great setup then everyone would run them in parallel and double the flight time prolly. But they are not doing that.

Most of us are trying to use practical setups that are common

Team Jr

08-31-2016 02:49 AM
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Flyin for Jesus

Senior Heliman

Dana Point, Ca. 92629

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I do understand what you are saying tho but if it was such a great setup then everyone would run them in parallel and double the flight time prolly. But they are not doing that.
Power is power... You can get the same performance with a 1s 60,000mAh pack but you would need a 1000A ESC and the proper gauge wire and connectors to handle it.

The reason people don't do a 6s 10,000 is because of the added cost of needing a 160A ESC. A higher voltage setup is more efficient though not by much when looking at a 6s to 12s setup. You absolutely would not get any longer flight time out of 2 - 6s packs in parallel given the HS is the same as your 12s setup using the same heli in both configurations.

08-31-2016 03:25 AM
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LaDon

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Fort Dodge .Ia

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Sorry if I am ignorant on this but what is the difference of running a 160 amp esc like most do now on the 12s setup and a 160 amp esc on a 6s setup? Seems like the cost is either the same or even a little less just because it is not a high voltage setup

Team Jr

08-31-2016 03:30 AM
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Flyin for Jesus

Senior Heliman

Dana Point, Ca. 92629

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If you're running high voltage and need a 160A ESC, then to run the same on low voltage, you would need a 320A ESC.

However, some things simply aren't available. I don't know of any motors for a 700 size machine that are high enough Kv to run on 6s and get you up the their recommended headspeeds.
There are some 600 size motors that are say 560Kv ( for 12s ) and some that are 1100Kv ( for 6s ) but in large, what people want is what manufacturers produce.
If I had a choice of a 6s 600 size heli ( running 2 packs in parallel ) and a 12s 600 size heli, I would pick the 12s one because of the slight efficiency gain with HV and because there are more choises of ESCs and motors for 12s. If there were the same amout of choices for both configurations, I would buy the one that I see more people wanting just in case I decided to sell it, I would possibly get more.

08-31-2016 05:07 AM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Flyin for Jesus gets it LaDon! Thank you Flyin for Jesus! You can take over, good look getting through to LaDon.

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-31-2016 06:58 AM
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LaDon

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Fort Dodge .Ia

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Ah ha finally. See flying for Jesus I think you do understand. Richard don't. He always wants to compare 2 different size helis. Not apples for apples. You can not compare a 550 to a 700 like he wants to prove a point

That is why I used the 450 senario. If the 3s system was as good as the 6s system and wasn't more efficient and didn't make more power then nobody would do it. That is where the problem is with Richard he swears it is impossible to make a difference. Wrong. A 3s 450 ppl are using 2200 mah packs. 6s 1350. They are getting the same flight time. That is really an easy on to measure as long as you have a watch. Not hard even Richard should be able to do that. 3 fricken minutes is 3 minutes that don't change. Also coming out of the motor has to be more power hp wise. 22 volts is still less than 44. That is like saying the stock 350 in a corvette makes the same power as the 427. Not.

Ok now if the 6s system uses less mah in a 3 min flight it will have to be easier on the battery. That is fact as 80% of the 2200 pack is 1760 mah. Correct? 80% of a 1350 is 1080. Correct? Yes. Ok so now 1760 mah on 3 min of flight time is 586 mah a minute. Mah draw on 1080 is 360 mah a min. So that means Ron Thomas comment being that you can get away with a lower c battery with higher s count is correct. These numbers are what ppl are getting whether Richard chooses to believe them or not. Sure the 3 min could change a little depending on flight time but you can't say well we will fly the 3s system easier. Need to figure the same thing.

See where the problem is with this whole conversation is Richard wants to just count what the pack is capable of instead of how it is used in the real world. He also won't compare apples to apples. A fricking 500 is not a 700. Different weight different head speeds and different disk loading.

I understand what you are saying it just don't work that way in the real world

Also Richard he said he would pick the 12s system because of a little better efficiency. You said there is no difference. He don't totally agree with you

Team Jr

08-31-2016 01:17 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Your still not getting it.

It works the same no matter what size the heli!!

I posted your so called apples to apples test results ages ago on page 5! The dial on the far left shows pack load! Did you miss this post??

BTW no one has ever mentioned a 500.

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-31-2016 01:47 PM
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LaDon

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Fort Dodge .Ia

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500 550 what the hell ever and that comes up so blurry on my phone I can read it and a 550 and a 700 unless you can't figure it out ARE not the same size

Team Jr

08-31-2016 03:09 PM
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Flyin for Jesus

Senior Heliman

Dana Point, Ca. 92629

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So that means Ron Thomas comment being that you can get away with a lower c battery with higher s count is correct.
This is an incorrect statement. I'll get to that in a minute.

so your 3s 2200mAh pack is not apples to apples compared to a 6s 1350 pack.
Apples to apples would compare a 3s 2200 and a 6s 1100. so with the 6s 1350mAh setup you will get either more power or a longer flight time based on the fact that the 6s pack contains more power... not as in like horsepower, but more energy storage.

Here's the answer to your above statement... C rating is a number related to the packs capacity. 2200mAh pack 30c would put out 66 amps. ( not figuring in any bla bla bla about if the battery manufacturers lie about C ratings )

Comparing apples...
3s 2200mAh 30c pack outputs 66 amps. 2.2 x 30 = 66
6s 1100mAh 30c pack outputs 33 amps. 1.1 x 30 = 33

So a 3s heli drawing double the amperage of a 6s heli still would need the same C rated pack.

08-31-2016 03:10 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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100% correct Flyin for Jesus thank you!

I was running out of ways I could explain it to him!

He still won't get it! Lol!

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-31-2016 03:13 PM
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LaDon

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Fort Dodge .Ia

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Nobody is arguing that part Flying. What is being left out is the Heli setup. Sure the batteries will do exactly what you said. Funny thing about this whole thread is nobody argued Richards point of batteries not making the c rating. NOBODY! Well maybe one depending on how you look at it. That was the guy in the video. He said Qoute " I am the person that checks the batteries for opti power. They don't get the c rating sticker unless I say it makes the rating". Now he did say that. With that being said then since he rates them and opti power makes a 50c battery according to what he is saying it must make his test. Now even with that being said I am not sure I believe it but that is what was said

Ok now so back to the 3s 6s deal. If you put the 6s on the 450 and get the same flight time with the 6s 1350 compared to the 3s 2200 and 3s is burning a max of 66 amp and the 6s is burning 33 amps to accomplish the same thing then the 6s is easier on equipment. It has to be. Ppl are not putting 6s on the 450s to go backward in power. That is what I mean by apples to apples is same size Heli. Power systems have to change in order to make them work correctly. Sure you could put the 6s pack on a 3s system but not for long

Also on the 6s system for the same flight time you are using a lot less mah per minute. 586 compared to 333. That is easier on equipment also.

Richard says you don't get more power from the 12s system over a 6s system. Look above he did say that in replying to my 450 comments. Sure battery power is correct. They only have x amount and that is it. The difference is in what or how it is being used. The battery will prolly undoubtedly put out more than you can make use of in the Heli. For instance if I have this right and flying you can correct me if I am wrong but say a 30c 5000 pack would be constant 150amps. Right? If so I know of nobody that pulls that on a constant basis. So in the end it still has to do with how it is used. That is the point most ppl have tried making.

The OP started out wanting to know 30c or 50c. This topic got way off track me included. But to answer his question it is totally up to him. Will 30c work? Sure I didn't see anyone say it wouldn't. Also the only thing anyone said the 50c will do better is come down cooler. That is fact. Just read nobody said they will get more power. You can come over and that can be proven easy with 2 sets of packs and flying it and testing with a temp gun. It won't lie.

Sure your point and Richards pencils out. But penciling ain't using it.

Team Jr

08-31-2016 07:08 PM
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LaDon

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Fort Dodge .Ia

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Also Flying you can tell me if I am wrong here. The one thing I see that is getting left out in all the conversations is volts. Volts is power. More volts is more power period. That is the argument with Richard. Like I said he said we are not seeing any power difference between 3s and 6s. Is there a way of calculating hp of the motor and torque of different s packs say a 6s to a 12s. We all know 5000 mah is that and 30c is that and so on. But voltage has to make a difference in the whole system or we all would be way better off with 1s systems. Then charging would be easy

Team Jr

08-31-2016 07:30 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Pmsl! Volts is power! Hahahaha! Flying for Jesus you'll have to take this, im done.

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-31-2016 07:37 PM
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