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ProModeler Scorpion Power
mikenike

Heliman

Ga.

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I am a sport flier only. What difference would I see flying a circuit with a 30c lipo 5000mah and than follow with a 50c 5000mah lipo. Both the same brand.

08-22-2016 02:04 PM
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RM3

Elite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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not much if you are just sport flying AFAIK...

however if your learning and dont have good collective management, you'll notice 30c lipos to "bog" a bit more than 50c during moves such as bad tic tocs, rainbows, flips etc.

I have a set of Opti and had a ThunderPower 65c... my style is somewhere between sport and 3D, i noticed that the 65c would not trip my voltage monitor for low voltage compared to the Opti that had a smaller C rating during full collective moves...

keep in mind your ESC has to be able to take advantage of your C rating...otherwise your wasting your money on higher C lipos.

for me "flight wise" the higher C lipos were more tolerant of bad collective management and higher charge rates... that was about it.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

08-22-2016 02:16 PM
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LaDon

Veteran

Fort Dodge .Ia

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Also the higher c rating will come down cooler. Which is a plus. You have started a firestorm here tho as the c rating debate will start all over. The above post is correct on his statement. Now what is going to happen is the c rating ppl will get on here and tell you that they are a waste of money and can't make the ratings. They will use math to try and prove it. I won't say they are right or wrong as the only real way to tell would to have actual measuring equipment and test the output. Lots of math theories are not always right as there are a lot of things that work that mathematically shouldn't. Just do yourself a favor and get good quality packs. Spend more today to spend less in the end. Let the games begin

Team Jr

08-22-2016 03:20 PM
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bkervaski

Elite Veteran

Birmingham, AL, USA

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In my experience, most of the people in the "sport flyer" category don't have great collective management so they are harder on their heli than a more experienced pilot. Often conventional wisdom is wrong when helping this level of pilot. You need more heli to keep up with the abuse you're going to give it.

Also these are typically the guys that setup their helis "according to <insert your favorite pro here>" with 15 degrees of pitch and 10 degrees of collective when in fact they need like 10/8 for their skill level (and equipment choices).

And .. there's a big misconception about "hard 3d" vs "sport flying". In most "hard 3d" flying the heli actually isn't being beat to death.. they look like they are.. but not really if the skill is there.. A piro flip, for example, is WAY less hard on battery than something as simple as a hurricane or fast forward flight.

So .. sport flying can often need more from a heli than what we call "hard 3d" ..

My $0.02

Team Synergy Factory Specialist / Scorpion / Thunder Power / Byron's Fuels

08-22-2016 03:32 PM
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Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Some of the best answers will come by what you're flying. A 12S model will push cells less overall than a 6S model. A 30C pack may only get a bit warm on a 12S model flown in a spirited manner, while that same pack might go beyond warm in a 6S model flown very hard.

Do your research on packs carefully to weed out the manufacturers who hype high C ratings but which can't deliver when their packs are actually tested.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

08-22-2016 04:22 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Now what is going to happen is the c rating ppl will get on here and tell you that they are a waste of money and can't make the ratings.
Yep!
They will use math to try and prove it.
No need. Any decent charger will show cell resistance which is the definitive measure for a packs current discharge capability. I'm yet to see a pack that can discharge above 30C without damage.
A 12S model will push cells less overall than a 6S model. A 30C pack may only get a bit warm on a 12S model flown in a spirited manner, while that same pack might go beyond warm in a 6S model flown very hard.
Another myth im afraid. A 6s 5000mah pack heli will put the same strain on the cells as a 12s 2500mah pack heli so the same C rating will be needed in both.

That brings me onto another thing to consider, capacity, the bigger the pack capacity the less C rating you would need.

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-24-2016 01:52 PM
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LaDon

Veteran

Fort Dodge .Ia

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I knew Richard wouldn't let me down

Actually from what I have been told the ir that is measured by the charger is not the resting IR of the battery because it is being charged. In other words what I have been told is that even tho it is close it is not completely accurate as far as discharge. Like I said I am not an EE but this horse has been beat enough. Even if the discharge rate is only 30c there is still a difference in heat produced that is fact.

Team Jr

08-24-2016 01:55 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Actually from what I have been told the ir that is measured by the charger is not the resting IR of the battery because it is being charged.
That would mean the IR would change depending on the charge rate but it doesn't.
Like I said I am not an EE but this horse has been beat enough.
Clearly it hasn't. There are still too many people believing that the higher the C rating the better. That may have been true 10 years ago when a 20C pack was the best you could get but now they have taken Li-po tech as far as they can and despite manufacturers having a pissing contest by sticking higher and higher C ratings on the packs they seem to have leveled around the 30C mark. Test your packs yourself if you don't believe me!

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-24-2016 02:07 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Watch at YouTube

For the OP.

Read the latest comment on the video by Heli Plank, 2 years ago.

(Not the latest comment anymore as I have just commented!)

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-24-2016 02:17 PM
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Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Richard,

I can assure you that a 6s 5000 model will push that single pack harder than than a 12s 5000 model flown the same way. There in no myth there. I live the reality with every trip to the field and know the differences in peak currrent because I've logged them. The 12s model barely hit 100 amps with packs staying mostly ambient; the 6s model easily breaks 100 amps and the packs come down much warmer. I can get away with an 80amp esc in the 12S model; the 6S model would put the esc on the edge. I am not mixing capacity of pack. The only variable I manipulated in my comment was cell count. The OP never stated what model he had or the cell count. He only asked about considerations for so-called C rating. A 12S model can get away with low C rating batteries in most people's hands day in and day out. Anything is going to work pretty decent. Put the SAME CAPACITY cheapo 6S 20c pack in a 570-600 class model and beat on it, and the pack likely is going to come down more than warm. Should you doubt this, go ask someone on this forum who had an early generation Trex 600E in the days when that model was configured 6S and good packs were maybe 20C. Ask them how well the packs held up; the packs lived short and miserable lives. Guys changed it to 12S in short order. IR is not the universal predictor of pack performance either, though it is an excellent predictor of cell health. I have several 5 year old 5000 mah 6S packs with IR's in the 2's. When I removed them from service, they were coming down some 15 or more D F cooler than new packs with the same capacity and similar IR's flown in the same model and the same way.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

08-24-2016 07:04 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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. I can assure you that a 6s 5000 model will push that single pack harder than than a 12s 5000 model flown the same way.
Erm well yes obviously! You have doubled the Wh in the 12s 5000. The equivalent would be 6s 10,000 not 6s 5000.

12s 5000 in a 700 will be under the same load as a 6s 5000 in a 550-600 assuming they are flown the same I. E. Same flight time. Your 6s model MUST have a shorter flight time.
. this, go ask someone on this forum who had an early generation Trex 600E in the days when that model was configured 6S and good packs were maybe 20C. Ask them how well the packs held up; the packs lived short and miserable lives.
A 20c pack back then was probably more like 10c, chargers weren't nearly as good, motors and esc's weren't nearly as efficient and people didn't have the knowledge about looking after lipos that they do now.

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-24-2016 07:11 PM
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LaDon

Veteran

Fort Dodge .Ia

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Well from watching that video and stuff if I understood it correct he said that the opti power battery made the c rating. He also had 50c batteries there which we didn't see tested I don't think but if opti power don't put on a c rating that ain't correct them by his method it must have made it. Something isn't making sence here. What is it? Did I miss something?

Team Jr

08-24-2016 07:59 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Optipower also do 50C packs but there is no video to prove it, I would wonder why!

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-24-2016 08:23 PM
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LaDon

Veteran

Fort Dodge .Ia

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But if you listened to the guy he said that they don't put the c rating on the battery unless he says it makes it. So prove him wrong. That is all it takes. But not with math either. Math also says a lot of the fighter jets shouldn't fly but they do

You should have never posted that video because he said these things

1. I am an independent contractor

2. Opti power don't put the ratings on the battery unless he says they make the rating

That means it must have made it or was within tolerance

Team Jr

08-24-2016 09:18 PM
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RM3

Elite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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great... Richard is here... I leaving.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

08-24-2016 09:40 PM
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LaDon

Veteran

Fort Dodge .Ia

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No RM3 stick around you have hear how he is gonna justify this one cause the proof was in the video he posted that he is (as fonzie would say). Wwwrrrrooo. Ho that is right he couldn't say it

Team Jr

08-24-2016 09:53 PM
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Andy from Sandy

Key Veteran

Bedfordshire, UK

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The problem is Richard you leapt in without finding out what the OP is flying.

He is using 6s 5000 but he could be flying a 700 in a 12S configuration, so what Dr.Ben stated is correct.

As for chargers good or bad measuring IR I know quite well that the PowerLab range measures low and gives different results on one or two of the cells. For this reason a charger can only really be used as a comparison device from one charge to the next.

That video IMHO shows a pack struggling. Just look at the large difference in voltage when the load is removed.

08-24-2016 09:55 PM
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Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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Nothing to argue, we have physics.

  

08-24-2016 10:14 PM
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ICUR1-2

Key Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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I am a sport flier only. What difference would I see flying a circuit with a 30c lipo 5000mah and than follow with a 50c 5000mah lipo. Both the same brand.
Your 50C pack will land cooler and you may get an extra 30 secs

I also believe that using a higher C discharge will last for more cycles compared to a battery that has just enough for the job.
My reason being that at the end of flight around 30% remaining the higher C battery can still supply the Amps required.

spending time, paying attention

08-24-2016 10:24 PM
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ICUR1-2

Key Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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What difference would I see flying a circuit with a 30c lipo 5000mah and than follow with a 50c 5000mah lipo.
A 5 year old kid answer would be:
the 50C lipo is faster

spending time, paying attention

08-24-2016 10:44 PM
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