RunRyder RC
 14  Topic Subscribe
WATCH  2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 861 views POST REPLY
Scorpion Power Thunder Power RC
Chris.C

Veteran

Hong Kong

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Having set up more than a dozen CGY in my heli and my friend's and have been flying with CGY for years, I like this FBL very much.

I took the recommendation from Henseleit so I bought a Vbar Neo for my new TDR last week. I don't like to pull my PC for set up, so I bought the Vcontrol as well.

Now with some experience flying the vbar, I would very much like to see these features in the future(hopefully near future) in the CGY:
- an integrated sensor with the control unit(i have two CGY failed with "sensor err" because of the cable, luckily failure occurred before flight);
- an integrated sensor + control unit + SBus 2 receiver;
- tune the CGY directly in my 18SZ;
- pre-defined heli setting that can be downloaded to CGY, for popular heli brands,

08-18-2016 04:08 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
Jabber

New Heliman

Hong Kong

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

So which do you like best, Chris, CGY or V Bar?

08-18-2016 06:01 AM
PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
PaulBowen

Veteran

Victoria, Australia.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Personally I prefer a remote sensor as it allows optimum placement with regards to space and vibration.

My Hirobo Turbulence D3v2 doesn't have any appropriate space under the canopy for a sensor. Vibration levels are far less on the gyro plate behind the mast.

I'm a Hirobo, JR, flybar, nitro and all things helicopter fanatic!

08-18-2016 08:49 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
wjvail

Key Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

- an integrated sensor + control unit + SBus 2 receiver;
I wonder how far this integration idea could go.

You suggest a newer generation of CGY with integrated RX.

With the growth of electrics I've seen others suggest an ESC that includes a RX.

When I began modeling a "flight pack" could be bought as a "brick". That was 2 or 3 servos and a RX in a single rectangular package. There was a pigtail for the aileron servo and another for receiver battery. You could just drop it between two rail in your fuselage and you had throttle, elevator, rudder and receiver installed. Job done. It had limitations but in many respects, it worked well.

I wonder if we'll see a day when some slab sided item that includes 4 servos, gyro, governor, and ESC/BEC that can be plugged into any compatible helicopter. No programming or setup required. I'd be perfect for the Walmart helicopter crowd.

Almost every electric helicopter I've built required the installation of the same items and it took countless screws, grommets, washers each and every time. It takes many many hours to do the job on every helicopter. The rats-nest of wires takes more hours to tame and I can never seem to do the job properly with less than 50 zip ties (40 of which are wasted).

Just wondering aloud...

Bill

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

08-18-2016 03:12 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
ssmith512

Key Veteran

Indianapolis, IN USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Now with some experience flying the vbar, I would very much like to see these features in the future(hopefully near future) in the CGY:
- an integrated sensor with the control unit(i have two CGY failed with "sensor err" because of the cable, luckily failure occurred before flight);
Due to the OLED screen being on the unit, I prefer the sensor being separate. Allows me to position the unit in a location for easy viewing - especially helpful in a scale bird with a full fuse and cockpit.
- an integrated sensor + control unit + SBus 2 receiver;
See above. The receiver integration might be nice, but not necessary IMO. Again, gives me the ability to locate the sensor, the RX and the control unit all in their respective optimum locations - all of which are heli/chassis dependent.
- tune the CGY directly in my 18SZ;
Would be neat feature set for sure. I can see something like that being handy.
- pre-defined heli setting that can be downloaded to CGY, for popular heli brands,
Waste of resources IMO. Heli's/blades change too often it seems nowadays. Heli settings are such a personal "feel" thing anyway. Files can be shared by individual users online.

Steve

08-18-2016 03:50 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Those are very reasonable suggestions. Presets are challenging because while there may be a given model, there are many, many different ways to set up that one model, and that can affect settings. For example, an expert flying a Synergy E5 at 2400 will want different cyclic rate and style settings than a newbie flying that same model at 1900-2000 and just learning to hover.

It is helpful for you all to offer your comments on what you'd care to see in the next generation of product.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

08-18-2016 03:56 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
wjvail

Key Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ben... I know you know this but for the benifit of others...

There are some advantages to integrating multiple items into a single unit but even greater disadvantages.

Obvious advantages are easier installation and less clutter. If every helicopter includes the same basic items, why are they all separate pieces?

The disadvantages are lessons learned from the "brick" I mentioned earlier. I flew several airplanes using a Kraft and EK bricks and the lessons were only clear after using the setup for a while.

The most obvious limitation is that there are far fewer choices. If you were to run an integrated flight pack that included a Futaba 7008SB receiver (my personal preference), you immediately rule out any other FBL controller, ESC, servo, etc. Almost certainly all of these items would be Futaba branded. No supersize there, right?

Going on... If a tail gyro won't function without a tail servo, why are these separate pieces? Why not just include the sensor, control box, and servo into a very small package that could be mounted to the boom?. Same for the governor. Why not put the governor in a dedicated throttle servo? The obvious answer is that changes and improvements to either the gyro or servo would require replacing both as a unit.

An example might help. Yesterday I worked on the setup of the 701 gyro installed in an older X-Cell Tempest. While not much has improved over the last few years with the 701 (firmware version 1.1 from Oct 2011 - and it's still a kickass gyro), there has been considerable improvement in servos over the same period of time. Sold as separate pieces I am free to upgrade my tail servo without replacing the gyro.

If the CGY 750 included a receiver, what receiver would it include and would you ever be inclined to change or upgrade that receiver? Where would Spektrum users come out in this integration?

One of the first limitations I noticed with my "brick" was that a small mishap that damaged one of the three servos, didn't just damage one servo. It damaged 3 servos and a receiver. Sure some of these items still functioned, but with one servo stripped, they all had to come out and be sent in.

Integrating our hobby items into increasingly more inclusive packages feels a lot like buying a stereo with a built in music or video player. How many people bought a TV with a VHS player built in? Would you like your stereo to include a cassette tape player? If it did, would it include a jack for an iPhone input?

Just some thoughts...

Bill

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

08-18-2016 05:07 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
BrianApp

Veteran

Grand Rapids, MI

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I like the separate sensor as well. Tuck the sensor where it works best and put the control unit where you can get to it. When moving a beast or mini v around I always have to make sure I can get to the pots or usb jack. I once thought an intergrated Rx was a good idea but now that I have a sbus for every machine I don't want to spend one penny more for a wasted Rx in the fbl.

08-18-2016 08:29 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
Chris.C

Veteran

Hong Kong

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Flight performance aside in this comparison, I found those features listed above are very nice in my Vcontrol/Vbar combo.

Pre-defined setting and set up via transmitter enabled me to fly my helicopter in a very short time.

I guess the general comment for a CGY first time user is "complicated". I mean CGY is such an excellent gyro but not everybody buy this gyro first time would fully understand the manual and knows which setting in the OLED is neccesary, which is not.

08-19-2016 05:04 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
BrianApp

Veteran

Grand Rapids, MI

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

This is why I think the video Nick made for ver2.0 should be packed in on a mini dvd with the unit or at the very least refereed to in the documentation with a link to a futaba site where it can be downloaded. Futaba really needs to host these videos on its site on the documents page right next to the 750 manual download link.

It would also help if they made an OPTIONAL pc setup software with documentation on what a setting does right next to the setting.

08-19-2016 05:36 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
Jabber

New Heliman

Hong Kong

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

And the parameters need to be explained, properly. I got completely lost with mine, and it was only with help from people like Chris C and others in Hong Kong, and Dan Hiatt that I started to understand, and I still don't know what half of them do!

08-19-2016 06:06 AM
PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
Chris.C

Veteran

Hong Kong

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

With a few steps in my Vcontrol, I am able to use the rescue function in the vbar. Very nice feature so please Futaba, consider rescue as an option. Don't want to use it in flight but it could be helpful sometimes.

08-19-2016 10:11 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
BrianApp

Veteran

Grand Rapids, MI

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Here is what you need to watch to understand it all.

Watch at YouTube

Watch at YouTube

Watch at YouTube

Watch at YouTube

Watch at YouTube

Futaba needs to directly host these setup videos on their documentation page.

08-19-2016 10:46 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
Jabber

New Heliman

Hong Kong

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The movies are great, but don't really help at the field in fine tuning. I think they basically assume a familiarity with the CGY, already, but it would be nice to have a manual that says, if your Heli is doing X, then move parameter Y.

08-20-2016 11:35 AM
PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You mean like this:

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

08-20-2016 09:09 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
banshee rider

Senior Heliman

n.e. illinois

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Like has been said previously
I do not want an all in one box
All in one boxes limit ones options
with mounting and components

More tuning/setup thru the transmitter would be good
but that will raise the price of the Tx. and the Rx. no doubt
and ad more complication to them

I don't find it all that difficult to remove the canopy
and poke a couple of buttons to make an adjustment

Its just not that hard

ageing is manditory maturity is optional

08-20-2016 11:40 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
BrianApp

Veteran

Grand Rapids, MI

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The movies are great, but don't really help at the field in fine tuning. I think they basically assume a familiarity with the CGY, already, but it would be nice to have a manual that says, if your Heli is doing X, then move parameter Y.
He goes through every option and tells you what behavior it changes and how to tune it to change the behavior it controls. I don't know what else we can ask for. Since he goes through every option you don't need any familiarity with a 750. I would rather have every step explained than some type of flow chart with a list of problems and parameters to change.

08-21-2016 04:40 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
Knud Pedersen

Key Veteran

Denmark - Europe

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Wishes for the next CGY:
- HD power input connection
- built in on/off switch (fail on)
- BT could be nice - but the pokertool works great though....

ChopperKnud
Team Miniature Aircraft
ThePitchbrothers

08-23-2016 11:41 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
Jabber

New Heliman

Hong Kong

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Looks like anything being asked for is being done by some, if not all of the alternatives. CGY750 has been around for a while and, although I think it is a cracking piece of kit and I use it exclusively, I would like to see,

Up too date sensors.
single box, including sensors and receiver for Futaba radios, but options for others, obviously. Most helis now have a platform for this so sensor location should not be an issue
Interface with Futaba radios for programming
Recommended starter settings for specific helicopters. Experienced pilots may not need this but for regular chaps, at least it give a safe start up point
PC interface, lot easier than sequential poking around, even if you are used to it
Rescue/bailout whatever you want to call it
Altitude sensor so rescue/bailout can be automatic at a set altitude.

When you look at the smarts they are putting in such tiny boxes nowadays, I cannot see any of this to be an issue really, and if they put some of the stuff to make things really easy to fly if you want it, perhaps some of the drone pilots might come over. Even Spektrum have most of this!

08-24-2016 11:34 AM
PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
BrianApp

Veteran

Grand Rapids, MI

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

They do give you these.

DUAL RATES MUST BE 100) The base amount of cyclic pitch used to control the helicopter.
-Suggested amount of base cyclic pitch
● 800 size – 10 degrees
● 700 size – 9 degrees
● 600 - 550 size – 8 degrees
● 500 size 7 degrees
● 450 and below- 6 degrees

Recommended gain settings:
Size
Recommended Gyro Gain
AIL/ELE Gyro
450-550 50-60.00%
600-700 50-60.00%
750-more 50-60.00%
50% is a good starting point for rudder gain regardless of model size.

and they have two pages dedicated to how to do the initial tuning. So it is there.
They put some effort in V2 to make it easier to get going but still keep all options available in the expert menus.

A hard deck bailout would be cool but I would want the alt sensor and software to be an add on. I don't want the base price to go up for a feature I might not want.

I think futaba started with the better sensors and now others are catching up.

08-24-2016 06:58 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
WATCH  2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 861 views POST REPLY
AlignRC Scorpion Power
 Print TOPIC Advertisers 

 14  Topic Subscribe

Tuesday, September 27 - 9:42 am - Copyright © 2000-2016 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies