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sjgusmc21

Senior Heliman

San Antonio, Texas

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We purchased a 11 year old home on 1 June. Yeah! My first home...at least my home. Anyway, here in central Texas (San Antonio) the water is freak'n hard....really hard. So I installed a Fleck 7000 48K unit (should have gone 64K but whatever). There were no hook ups and I was nervous about cutting into the main. Old lady got the best of me, so I hired a plumber and had him do it. I won't say he did a bad job, but it sure as hell isn't the best. Whatever, will change it next summer when the family goes to the Philippines.

So, all of my plumbing runs thru a manifold, using PEX. Never heard of a manifold or pex before I purchased this house. When he installed it, I forgot to ask him to re-route the outdoor spigots (we have a inground watering system that runs straight from the main) so we could water the plants, etc. It is common knowledge that you should not use softened water for water the grass and plants. Plus, I don't want to waste it as well (the resin beads are freak'n expensive to replace). So I decided to do it myself using some sharkbites and some pex. The main pipes are CPVC 1", the drain is 3/4", the pex is 1/2. I think it turned out rather nice.

So I have heard mostly good stories about pex, but have heard some bad ones as well. I did ensure stuck them as far as I could inside of the shark bites, and they were cut clean, and even. I don't see a drop of water anywhere (knocking on wood). What are ya'lls experiences with using Sharkbites and pex?

What I have read is pex slipping off of copper pipes. Not to say it is normal, just reading.

08-13-2016 05:03 AM
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Jerry K

Key Veteran

Houston Area

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Replace your plumber, he should have known not to connect the outside water to a softener

Avoid the 'default' settings in life, Fat Dumb and Poor!!!

08-13-2016 01:44 PM
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RM3

Elite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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id sue that dumba$$ plumber... first off you water softener will now be doing triple the work to remove minerals from your water and it will cost you big $$$ doing so especially if its a salt type as softened water is not recommended for watering plants, lawns, and gardens due to its sodium content (salt)...

second, plants do better with certain minerals in the water(other than salt)...in fact what do you think your doing when you add miracle grow to your water? or add calcium, magnesium, iron, phosphorus... all common ingredients used by nurseries as additives to soil to grow plants.

Third, every house that I seen using manifolds, PEX with those quick disconnects ends up having leaks years later around the connector/tube junction, especially if they have a water hammer problem somewhere.... that tech is used over professionally installed copper/pvc cause its cheaper and 5x faster to install by homebuilders with less skill.

reminds me of when they started using aluminum wiring... that crap stopped when it turned out to be a root cause of fires in junction boxes...

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

08-13-2016 05:03 PM
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banshee rider

Senior Heliman

n.e. illinois

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Yep you said it all RM3
cheaper faster less skill = more $$$ for the contractor
or in this case plumber !

ageing is manditory maturity is optional

08-13-2016 08:26 PM
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Heli_Splatter

Key Veteran

Silver Spring, MD by way of Sidney, Ne - USA

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Where are the shutoff valves for the outdoor hose bibs?

Who is your drywall contractor?

08-13-2016 10:13 PM
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GREYEAGLE

Elite Veteran

Flat Land's

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Is that Cold Soft actually going into drinking supply ? ??

Supply from city come in to top of Manifold ?

Seen Cold Soft Taps to a garage for car washing ect - soft water.

Saw the crossover shut off then starting reading labels on that wild manifold ?? Just looking at soft taps?

What is a Snake Bite ?? Like a Saddle clamp ??

greyeagle

08-14-2016 01:48 AM
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sjgusmc21

Senior Heliman

San Antonio, Texas

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Thanks for the replies guys. No, I will not sue the fat @ass plumber. But he will never get my business again.

As I stated, I never intended to water the lawn/plants with softened water. I have a inground sprinkler system that runs directly from the main. So that was never an issue. What was a at issue is that I wanted the opportunity to hand water the lawn/plants with regular water. That is why I did what I did.

Here in San Antonio, I don't have to worry about freezing temps. I think it might have hit 32 for about 10 seconds last 'winter', so that isn't an issue.

Whether I like pex or not, doesn't matter. Most new homes are made with the stuff in them. I just have to deal with it in the mean time. When I redo it, I will probably use the actual pex connectors and copper rings to do it correctly. I will also redo my piping in copper from the main on. Don't have a choice as the main is in pex as well.

I didn't even think about the shutoff valves for the bibs. Thank you, that will be the next moderation I do.

Drywall guy? Do you mean the squared off hole I cut? Had to, as I didn't know any other way to get to the main.

I put the markings on there so my wife would know which way to turn the valves in case we have to shut the water softener off.

Thanks again for you suggestions and input.

08-14-2016 11:45 AM
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merlin3

Key Veteran

dayton, ohio

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Nothing wrong with pex and it will last forever if done right. However i would never use the junk sharkbite fittings. Do it it right and use crimp rings and a crimper. I prefer the one hand crimper and its crimp rings over the crimpers that use seperate dies based on pipe size. Its all sold at lowes and worth the small investment.

Justin - Team Horizon, Team Byron
2-700x, Trex 700n, small helis

08-14-2016 01:54 PM
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Heli_Splatter

Key Veteran

Silver Spring, MD by way of Sidney, Ne - USA

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OK, so I will just make myself clear. Until you added your outdoor modification, it was possible to close in the work and make it neat again. How are you going to drywall that mess?

Again, you do not have a way of shutting down the outside hose bibs. There are no valves. Maybe you have shutoff valves further down the line, but in cold country, you need to be able to drain off these lines before freezing weather.

It was drywalled nice and neat before. You should be able to make it look neat again. The water main was covered by drywall before. Water leaks are always a problem, no matter what. I am saying if you had planned a bit, you could have made it so that it could have been drywalled. (no matter what anyone else says) How are you going to put a panel door on that?

08-14-2016 07:08 PM
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GREYEAGLE

Elite Veteran

Flat Land's

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Not Ment to Dry Walled Shut : You must access it for service - Like any good plumbing lay out. Same with Electrical and Cable Runs.

The manifold Looks to have Individual Shut offs per circuit - and Maybe O - Ring's - some of those may even have a small circuit - Maybe a Bar Sink ect. Reverse Asmosis system for drinking ect.

Industry uses PEX by the Truck full -It's Fast and it's near goof proof.
Allows a lot of expansion or Give if building heaves or migrates.

You Rock it Shut - Some day if their is a Leak ( If you detect it } as it floods the carpet -- you got to Bash it open - THEN go back and re- work every thing including rotten wood and moldy rock maybe even a cricket or spider could hide in their.

Looks like you got 8 Tap's left !

Some Crazy Road map signage ya got their - Any Two WAy Water ?

You Purchase a Finish Panel for it : Usually Paint able Plastic .

They come in Assorts of Sizes - Attach with a hidden clips - no surface screws.

Kinda Neat set up really - Like a Electrical Service Panel but for H20

: Maybe run a Box for the softener electrical so you don't trip, run the drain for the salt tank. Maybe intersect the A- Coil drain line or pick up the condensate line if you have Natural gas heat.

greyeagle

08-14-2016 07:41 PM
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ssmith512

Key Veteran

Indianapolis, IN USA

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You are probably not going to like drinking or cooking with softened water either. Typical installations have exterior hose bibs, cold side kitchen faucet and refrigerator water supply bypassing the water softener.

Steve

08-14-2016 08:53 PM
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GREYEAGLE

Elite Veteran

Flat Land's

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Think to get to the Main : You put a Rubber glove on, then you cut a Hole in the end of a old bread sack. Put your hand TRUE the bread sack / maybe a wrap of masking tape. Wonder Bread Sack

With One hand Hold a Flash light - The with the bread sack hand push back the Owen's Corning Fiberglass .

Then at least you can look and Wonder ? Insulation : Bread sack keep's the Itchy away : Think the valve is in their !

Don't touch any thing ELSE !

greyeagle

08-14-2016 09:09 PM
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sjgusmc21

Senior Heliman

San Antonio, Texas

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You are probably not going to like drinking or cooking with softened water either. Typical installations have exterior hose bibs, cold side kitchen faucet and refrigerator water supply bypassing the water softener.

Really haven't noticed a difference. We only use it for cooking. We have a stand alone water dispenser I refill with the 5 gallon jugs weekly.

Maybe run a Box for the softener electrical so you don't trip, run the drain for the salt tank. Maybe intersect the A- Coil drain line or pick up the condensate line if you have Natural gas heat.

I have a 3/4" drain running outside to the main drain. It is plugged into a GFI outlet...but I am going to put it on a surge protector soon. So many things to do when you buy a new house...its on the list. As for the writing on the pipes...it will all be re-done next summer when I have the house to myself for 1.5 months.

OK, so I will just make myself clear. Until you added your outdoor modification, it was possible to close in the work and make it neat again. How are you going to drywall that mess?

Look, this is in the garage. At this point, I don't really care if it looks like a 'mess'. It also allows me to visiually and physically inspect it throughout the day. You are loud and clear and thanks for your input.


Nothing wrong with pex and it will last forever if done right. However i would never use the junk sharkbite fittings. Do it it right and use crimp rings and a crimper.

Thanks Merlin. This is temporary and I certainly will do it the right way with in the next 11 months. I will use the proper crimping tools/rings when I re-do it.

08-15-2016 03:31 AM
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PBusch

Key Veteran

Minnesota

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Forget the crimp rings, just use Pex A and get the expander, look it up, its very simple.

Sharkbite fittings have been approved for use but are very expensive. If your plumber is using them then he is passing that cost to you, this speeds up his work saving HIM time. If your going to use these push fittings then only use the Sharkbits, the other brands out there are known to leak. Push fittings/Sharkbites are just fine in certain applications but really should be used as a primary fitting.

Soft water to the hose bibs is a no no and same with any faucet you plan to drink out of which is typically the cold side of the kitchen faucet or to the water dispenser on your fridge.

08-16-2016 02:41 PM
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GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28.49N 81.22W

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Soft water to the hose bibs is a no no and same with any faucet you plan to drink out of which is typically the cold side of the kitchen faucet or to the water dispenser on your fridge.
Why should you not drink soft water. Been doing it for 50 years with no effect and it gets the sulfur smell and taste out of my water (typical problem for many well waters here in Florida).
Some one said the salt in the water is bad for grass, there is no salt left in the mineral bed after back washing (automatic) but you don't want to use it for watering based on the cost, and the minerals certainly won't hurt the grass.
.
PS. You need to someday hook up your salt tank overflow to drain away any malfunction of the softener.
.
Also curious, where does the backwash go, as it will have salt water in it ?

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

08-16-2016 02:59 PM
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dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Drinking softened water poses no immediate or significant health risk. The amount of sodium added to the water by a softener using resin and salt is negligible.

Cooking with softened water is no different, and does not alter taste, flavor, or cooking times, as compared to using "plain" water. But using softened water will keep your pots, pans, and utensils free of calcium deposits.

Plumbing only to hot water outlets pretty much negates the effect of having softened water, as to achieve some preferred water temperature generally requires mixing hot and cold to achieve the desired temperature.

Common benefits associated with soft water are the elimination of calcium and other hard water deposits on fixtures, the prevention of buildup of scale inside your plumbing, and reducing the amount of soap and laundry detergent needed for cleaning purposes. You will use less laundry and dish-soap with softened water than with "plain" water.

Plumb only the hot, you still get nasty calcium deposits everywhere. The cold water side of your plumbing still gets crud over time. Add any amount of unsoftened water to the hot, you lose all benefits associated with soft water.

If you're going to treat only the hot, you negate any advantages gained using soft water. Might as well not install the unit at all.

Been using softened water since 1990, no horror stories to report.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

08-21-2016 05:52 AM
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sjgusmc21

Senior Heliman

San Antonio, Texas

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PS. You need to someday hook up your salt tank overflow to drain away any malfunction of the softener.
.
Also curious, where does the backwash go, as it will have salt water in it ?

Thanks Gyrofreak. I will. The list is long on the new house and its on there....

The 'plumber' ran a 1/2" tube to the washing machine drain. When I questioned him about it, he said if anything happens, then the drain is partially blocked, not the fault of the water softener drain. What a load that was. We almost immediately started finding bits of dirt and 'gunk' in our washing machine. By complete accident, I found a grown over drain pipe tube (vent) buried under some grass next to the drive way. So I ran a 3/4" inch pipe along the wall, thru the wall to the outside, along the base of the foundation into the vent pipe. Apparently, they never covered it....I only discovered it when I was washing my Truck and I kept hearing running water near by. Before fall sets in, I will bury it. No more problems with the washing machine now. Go figure.

08-21-2016 01:35 PM
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GREYEAGLE

Elite Veteran

Flat Land's

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How does dirt and grass from a drive drain off some thing -

Migrate back up a 1/2 drain line from a driveway drain line off some thing - back up hill - go vertical up a 1- 1/4 free standing washer discharge pipe - back down the 1-1/4 " rubber washer hose - into - the pump - past the pump - and into - the washing machine agitator drum ?
The 'plumber' ran a 1/2" tube to the washing machine drain. When I questioned him about it, he said if anything happens, then the drain is partially blocked, not the fault of the water softener drain. What a load that was. We almost immediately started finding bits of dirt and 'gunk' in our washing machine. By complete accident, I found a grown over drain pipe tube (vent) buried under some grass next to the drive way. So I ran a 3/4" inch pipe along the wall, thru the wall to the outside, along the base of the foundation into the vent pipe.
Next time you do the wash- open the lid really quick to see if it's spinning the right direction - You gota be quick.
It maybe hooked up backward's

Did your Hire a Cajun Plumber ?
Maybe it's hooked to a whole house Central Vac system ?

greyeagle

08-21-2016 08:44 PM
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sjgusmc21

Senior Heliman

San Antonio, Texas

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Look, the plumber is the ONLY person I have paid ANYONE to do my work for. I was nervous about cutting into the water main. I shouldn't have been, and now my wife knows to shut her mouth.

Lesson learned. Grey, I really don't know how to take your posts sometimes, as I don't smoke weed so understanding you has always been somewhat of a challenge.

I know these facts:

The washing machine had no dirt practicals in it BEFORE he hooked the drain line into the washing machine drain.

2 loads after I moved the drain line to outside, there is no more dirt in the washing machine.

I'm not a very smart man, but I know a simple solution when it beats me upside the head.

08-22-2016 04:15 AM
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Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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Grey, I really don't know how to take your posts sometimes
some times I wish I could write like Grey, but I have to add, that, if I did I would only understand about 60% of what I write

I'm glad you got it fixed, cause no one like's a wish-wash washing machine

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

08-23-2016 03:23 AM
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