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Scorpion Power Thunder Power RC
NIKOS PAPISTAS

Senior Heliman

KOZANI-GREECE

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Hi to everyone.
I make one eagle 3 wc ep ssl-2 head for a friend of mine with blackshark f3c body.
The setup is 3 Jr sls 01 servo on head.....Futaba bls 276 sv for tail with Futaba 750 gyro ver.2.0.
I.m a familiar with Futaba 750 because I have it in all my helis.
The heli have kotronik jive 120 esc.
Yesterday I go to fly for first time this beauty heli.
In spool up time after I start and before take of the heli have wobble vibration ....when the governor put in then everything it's ok...I see that I have low rpm in head about 1400 so I land to Change the throttle curve in tx.....I land and I close the throttle so I wait to stop the blade.....in this time the heli have again vibration...a lot of vibration and then make spin and go upside down...I have hover gain in ail..elev 85% and the blade its tight but not very very tight.My problem is this vibration in start and in stop when he low the rpm from rotor.
I fix again the heli....he don't have damage....only the spindle.
The point is that the one servo horn from elev servo need to change.Before I used the cyclic big jr horn 34mm diameter but I don't have to replace so I change all with smaller..24mm.
In that case I.m ok like he said the manual ..(manual said the distance from two balllink up and down about 20mm.).
In swash menu with new horn he need to increase the swash rate from 50 before to 95 now to have 10 cyclic.I remember in 1.31 ver Dr Ben said to run about 50-70...I don't know if this it's also and in ver.2.
I go right now again to test it but I.m afraid again the wobbly vibration.I decreased the pitch from -4 before to -3 now in hover mode and I tight more the blade.
Any idea ?
He need to change again the servo horns with bigger to reduce the swash rate back in 50?
I.m disappointing because I scratches that heli.

SSt-Eagle Freya EX WC SSZ-V-FREYA X-SPEC-SCEADU EX-SDX DOMINIC-T-rex 500 esp

08-10-2016 01:21 PM
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NIKOS PAPISTAS

Senior Heliman

KOZANI-GREECE

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Like I said.....today I go for another flight after the yesterday problem.The problem solve with tight the blade.No more hard vibration in start or stopped the motor.
I fly with 1480 rpm in hover mode and the heli stay like drone with gps.In idle up I put 2000 rpm and +-9 pitch with zero in middle stick.The gain in ail-elev in hover mode I left to 85%.Maybe it's still better to increase about 88-90%.....I tested next time to see.
For better result when I land and stop the motor and wait to stop the blade to turn in this time I go in hold mode with stick in center because here I have 0 degrees so the blade turn without force so it's no vibration at all.
The point that I.m thinking it's about the small servo horn....I don't know what to do....with this small horn I have the swash rate to 100% to have 10.5 degree in ail-elev.If I change it with the bigger I dicrease to 55-60 the swash rate.Any idea about?
Pm....sorry for my bad English.
Have a nice day to everyone.

SSt-Eagle Freya EX WC SSZ-V-FREYA X-SPEC-SCEADU EX-SDX DOMINIC-T-rex 500 esp

08-10-2016 10:23 PM
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Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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For 2.0 for a contest model 9 degrees of static cyclic measured when the gyro is in swash rste mode should suffice. You won't want to exceed 70% to get this. Remember you can gain some cyclic pitch by using longer balls on the swash's inner ring.

Are there two different mounting point choices for the ball on the blade grip pitch arm?

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

08-16-2016 09:29 PM
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NIKOS PAPISTAS

Senior Heliman

KOZANI-GREECE

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Hi Dr Ben.
I fix the head like he said in the manual.Now I used 24mm cyclic servo horn.He give me 19mm from ball to ball upside down in ball link horn.The manual from eagle with ssl-2 head give 20mm from ball to ball or 10 mm from center to each ball.With 19 mm total in horn he need to go in swash rate to 100% to give me 10.5 degrees cyclic (measurement in swash rate menu always).
With that setup I have 90%gain in ail elev with out issius.
Tell me something....it's better to change with bigger servo horn so I go back the swash rate to 70% or I live it like he is in 100% swash rate?Your opinion for better result?

SSt-Eagle Freya EX WC SSZ-V-FREYA X-SPEC-SCEADU EX-SDX DOMINIC-T-rex 500 esp

08-16-2016 09:48 PM
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NIKOS PAPISTAS

Senior Heliman

KOZANI-GREECE

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This is the big servo horn.34mm.Now I use smaller 24mm and the linkage from servo make a small angle into servo horn like he said in the manual from eagle with ssl-2 head.

SSt-Eagle Freya EX WC SSZ-V-FREYA X-SPEC-SCEADU EX-SDX DOMINIC-T-rex 500 esp

08-16-2016 10:00 PM
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Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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The mechanical set ip on thatnhead is going to yield the least cyclic throw. Go to the outer hole of the two choices on the inner ring of the swashplate and tell me what you get. That's the same effect as using longer balls on the inner ring as I already suggested. I also need to know the pitch range and what % pitch rate yielded it.

You also need to read what I've written above because I told you that for a contest model 9 degrees might be adequate. You won't need 10.5.

You CAN'T use 100% for swash rate.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

08-16-2016 10:55 PM
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NIKOS PAPISTAS

Senior Heliman

KOZANI-GREECE

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Oh...ok.I understand for outer hole in swash plate.
Now in pitch rate in swash menu of 750 I have 42% (lower from 50% that he have in default settings) and have without curve (0-50-100) mechanical pitch +-13.I put here to have only for autorotation.In hovering mode I have curve -3.5 down to +4.0 middle and 9.0 high.
In idle up I used +-9 with 0 middle and only for auto I put +12.5 high with middle 0 and low -7.
I run in hover mode 1480 rpm because I won't the heli smooth in hover with 2000 rpm in idle up.

SSt-Eagle Freya EX WC SSZ-V-FREYA X-SPEC-SCEADU EX-SDX DOMINIC-T-rex 500 esp

08-16-2016 11:14 PM
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NIKOS PAPISTAS

Senior Heliman

KOZANI-GREECE

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So Dr Ben if I understood right you suggest for cyclic 70% maximum.This i get with bigger horn like this in pic above or with outer hole in swash ring.
I have right now big horn so I change it tomorrow.What cyclic degrees it's best for fai contest?10 its ok?
Right now in flight tuning menu I have in cnt authA 28% from 35 default and the heli roll is smooth.

SSt-Eagle Freya EX WC SSZ-V-FREYA X-SPEC-SCEADU EX-SDX DOMINIC-T-rex 500 esp

08-16-2016 11:33 PM
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Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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You need to go to the outer hole of two choices on the inner ring of the swashplate. If you go to larger servo wheels, you're also going to increase the collective range and need to decrease the pitch rate to keep the range the same. That will decrease the resolution of the collective and make the model fly like pure crap on collective.

Please......do as I've suggested and use the outer holes on the inner ring of the swash and tell how the pitch measures at something less than 70% swash rate.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

08-17-2016 03:17 AM
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NIKOS PAPISTAS

Senior Heliman

KOZANI-GREECE

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Ok Dr.Ben.I change it and i tell you.

SSt-Eagle Freya EX WC SSZ-V-FREYA X-SPEC-SCEADU EX-SDX DOMINIC-T-rex 500 esp

08-17-2016 06:48 AM
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NIKOS PAPISTAS

Senior Heliman

KOZANI-GREECE

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Dr.Ben....this is ok?The outer?
This is for the second eagle 3 that it's coming in a few days.
I'll change also and the other tomorrow and I measurement to see it if he need to reduce the swash rate back to 70%.
How many degrees cyclic it's ok?10 and I see home many percent have in 10 or more?

SSt-Eagle Freya EX WC SSZ-V-FREYA X-SPEC-SCEADU EX-SDX DOMINIC-T-rex 500 esp

08-17-2016 12:35 PM
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Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Yes those holes. Anything in 9-10d range is fine.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

08-18-2016 01:05 AM
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NIKOS PAPISTAS

Senior Heliman

KOZANI-GREECE

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Hi...after all day...
Dr Ben I'll change with outer hole like you said.
Now I reduce the swash rate from 100% to 73% like you see in the pics but Sudenly I left in 75%.
The cyclic in elev is about 10 with 10.5 degrees but in ail it's about 9.
Why it's not the same?
In sdx with sl head it's the same ail with elev.
In Eagle the ail it's a little.
Something other that I see it's one phenomenon that it have been done with the different degrees between the blade.
Example....
I put the pitch cauge in one blade and I make all leveler with pitch rod (zero in center without curve 0-50-100 etc).....if I turn the blade in other side (spin the head) in same blade.....the parameters (etc +-12 zero center ) it's change about 1 degrees.its not same like in first position.Also if I put the head with blade in nose also it's change again and if I spin the blade in tail also again he change.If I thing right it's should be the same in every turn of the head?
I spend hours and hours to see why it's going on wrong.
Also and the cyclic range etc elev stick up have 10 deg and down elev have 9 and in ail.....left 10 deg right 9deg.
Everything it's set in mechanical level and center.
Any idea?

SSt-Eagle Freya EX WC SSZ-V-FREYA X-SPEC-SCEADU EX-SDX DOMINIC-T-rex 500 esp

08-21-2016 09:45 PM
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Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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The disparities in throw are geometrical. They occur unless the pitch rods go exactly straight up from the inner ring of the swash to the pitch arm on the blade grip, and there may be a little bit of difference caused by 135d versus 140d eCCPM calculations. Don't sweat it. As long and as the measured ail and throws are between 9 and 10 degrees, the model will fly well. Make sure you go through the swash detail menu in the swash expert menu.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

08-23-2016 02:17 AM
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NIKOS PAPISTAS

Senior Heliman

KOZANI-GREECE

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Hi.
Tell me please about the swash detail menu.....what to do with that?

SSt-Eagle Freya EX WC SSZ-V-FREYA X-SPEC-SCEADU EX-SDX DOMINIC-T-rex 500 esp

08-23-2016 07:06 AM
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Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Nikos,

You need to read the description in the instructions or look at Nick's video. The swash detail is under swashset. It removes any mechanical interactions that might be present in the model's control system. That part of the instructions was written basically from scratch and is not a Japanese translation. Thus I can't really type it all over again here because it would be nothing more than retyping the manual. Of course ask questions if any parts are unclear to you.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

08-24-2016 01:10 AM
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NIKOS PAPISTAS

Senior Heliman

KOZANI-GREECE

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Oh ok...I understand.
I know about swash expert menu.I check for interaction....I'm sure that he don't have.
So dr Ben right now I'm ok with the setup?
Can I leave it like it is with the small horn and the swash rate in 75%?
One question about the hole in swash inner ring....
I see and pic from aocc championship and the people here also used the outer hole like you said.If the heli flying better with outer hole of the swash why the Hirobo manual said to use the inside hole?

SSt-Eagle Freya EX WC SSZ-V-FREYA X-SPEC-SCEADU EX-SDX DOMINIC-T-rex 500 esp

08-24-2016 08:51 AM
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Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Not all flybarless systems work the same. The other hole choices on pitch arms and swashplate give options for those using systems other than the 750. Ultimately, the mechanical set up has to to set for what the model and FBL system dictate and not what the manual says.

Check the interactions closely. It is unlikely the system would not have a little, esp at higher collective positions, because your swash rate is still fairly high. The model's 135D eCCPM is a very good system, though.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

08-24-2016 05:23 PM
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NIKOS PAPISTAS

Senior Heliman

KOZANI-GREECE

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In 750 I put into 140 because the 750 it's not have 135 into swash menu.I see again for interaction.

SSt-Eagle Freya EX WC SSZ-V-FREYA X-SPEC-SCEADU EX-SDX DOMINIC-T-rex 500 esp

08-24-2016 05:50 PM
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Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Correct. Use 140.

Ben

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

08-25-2016 04:42 AM
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