RunRyder RC
 29  Topic Subscribe
WATCH  8 pages [ <<    <     1      2     ( 3 )     4      5     NEXT    >> ] 4963 views POST REPLY
Scorpion Power Thunder Power RC
heliraptor10

Key Veteran

kokomo, in-US

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A net doesn't need to be permanent.

So the biggest argument against the net is that it increases liability?

Really?

A net isn't a bullet proof vest, to be sure. If a 700 or something like that 880 were to go into center stage, a net (no matter the material) is not going to stop it.

But it could be the difference between a fatality and an injury.

A net isn't the solution. There is no solution. There are only precautions. Special training and warning signs will not change a thing. Accidents will happen. We can reduce the impact of these accidents though.

Moving the pilots out further is a good step.

I would even be happy if there were a policy to address the specific scenario put forth by myself and others here.

A "no kid" zone would make me feel better.
I know, I know that would make the event seem more dangerous than it is, and could impact attendance.

No kids in center stage, and maybe a standard of 6 feet back from the flight line.

Distance is going to be the easiest installation. And as long as pilots do the minimal of hitting the throttle hold, increased distance could be enough.

Goblin! where have you been all my life?

08-10-2016 01:46 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
chas1025

Veteran

TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic


According to your following quote, you completely validate my argument that a net creates a false sense of safety:

"A net isn't a bullet proof vest, to be sure. If a 700 or something like that 880 were to go into center stage, a net (no matter the material) is not going to stop it."

The majority of machines flown at center stage, at least 90%, are 700-800 size helicopters.

You missed the point of the post completely.

There is not just one problem with the concept of a net, there are many, many, many problems with a net.

A parent should evaluate any and all situations and decide if the safety/enjoyment ratio is worth their risk. Look below at how many accidents there were in youth sports, but I bet most people who have a child will put them in a sport without even researching the inherent dangers of youth sports. I used baseball, because using football would be unfair as it is too easy to show as being dangerous.

For example

Injuries

Based on an extrapolation of data collected by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) from U.S. emergency departments through its National Electronic Injury Surveillance System (NEISS), there were in 2007:
an estimated 109,202 baseball- and softball-related injuries among 5- to 14-year-old children treated in US emergency departments;
the highest number of injuries clustered in children 11 to 14 years, a group that represents the majority of participants;
nearly half (44%) involved the head:
25% to the face, including eyes and nose;
14% to the head and neck; and
5% to the mouth.
approximately one quarter to one-third of all youth baseball injuries are to the upper extremities, including:
the fingers (10% to 13%)
wrists (4% to 5%)
hands (4% to 5%).
just under 20% of injuries were to the lower extremities, including
knees (5%) and ankles (6%-7%)
injuries to the trunk and pubic area accounted for approximately 6% to 10% of all injuries.
for girls:
the highest number of injuries clustered in children from 13 to 16 years of age;
the distribution of injuries for body region was more evenly distributed, with
28% of girls' softball injuries involving the head and neck;
35% involving the upper extremities;
31% involving the lower extremities; and
5% involving the trunk and pubic area.
The five most common areas of injuries:
face (14%)
ankle (14%)
finger (13%)
knee (11%)
and head and neck (11%)
39% of injuries were classified as contusions, abrasions, lacerations, or hematomas/hemorrhages;
31% were classified as sprains or strains;
21% were classified as fractures, dislocations, or avulsions;
4% were classified as internal organ injuries; and
4% were classified as concussions.

Read more: http://www.momsteam.com/5-7/basebal...s#ixzz4GvwnChGm

08-10-2016 01:56 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
revmix

Key Veteran

NJ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

B. RADIO CONTROL (RC) 1. All pilots shall avoid flying directly over unprotected people

08-10-2016 02:03 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
Nashville

Elite Veteran

Formerly Music City now back home in Sunny Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Chas could you provide more statistics to make your point, lol. I still want a net at center stage. It doesn't have to be overly complicated to make happen.

I was Spektrum when Spektrum wasn't cool

08-10-2016 06:00 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
chas1025

Veteran

TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Nashville, then you should contact Donald Trump because he can get you a net built and get the airplane guys to pay for it...

08-10-2016 06:26 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
classic

Elite Veteran

All over the place!

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Forget the net, lets get a missile defense system built!!!

If the heli crosses the line, it gets shot down!!!

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

08-10-2016 08:23 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
don s

Key Veteran

Chesapeake, VA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ban spectators.

(Just kidding)

E820, Raptor G4N, X50F/E, E620, Forza 450, and some planks.

08-10-2016 08:39 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
Carey Shurley

Elite Veteran

Orlando, FL - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Safety Net

we implemented a safety barrier years ago for OHB and it is permanently installed at the flying site

even if its 100ft high and 1000 feet wide there is always some circumstance where it may not be enough

however since it was installed it has stopped a variety of parts and entire helicopters from going places that we didn't want them to. If its made from quality material it will stop a helicopter as it will wrap itself around the rotating parts and "grab" the model

nothing can prevent all accidents but I'm a big proponent of safety nets at least around areas where flying demonstrations are done. All of us in the hobby understand and accept a lot of risks however families that come out and watch don't always know the risks.

If you're not flying a gasoline helicopter
You're paying 10 times too much for fuel!!

08-10-2016 08:52 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
Kyle Owen

Senior Heliman

Newberry, Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Well said Carey! When you have a catch fence at flight station #1, the station that is used for demo's. It does reduce the risk substantially, since a large percentage of spectators gather there. It would be nice addition to IRCHA. Now if we could only stop the imbeciles that fly in the parking lot by the soy beans behind manufacturers row that would be great too.

sponsored by overtime
Formerly known as MADROTORZ
THANK A VERTERAN, PUNCH A POLITICIAN

08-10-2016 09:33 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
Heli_Splatter

Key Veteran

Silver Spring, MD by way of Sidney, Ne - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

As a spectator, I don't think that I assume ANY risk or a very low risk. Racing leagues and pro teams have installed safety devices and they have insurance to cover the damages for events that cannot be prevented.

I know that it was a big deal when Rare Bear went into the crowds at the Reno Air Races and it shut down the event for a year or more. Indi-cars have gone into the crowds. How are RC helis any different?

Doing nothing is not a defense.

08-10-2016 10:34 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
Salesmanheliboy

Veteran

Nashville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Interesting thread...

In my lifetime I went from riding in the bed of my fathers truck to being multi point secured to (potentially) a self drive car; safety evolves and I have made a living on that since 1987!

With that being said, safety standards are typically issued (and enforced) by governing bodies; OSHA, ANSI, MSAH, etc. In this case, IRCHA is not that governing body, AMA is.

The site we enjoy for the jamboree is OWNED and GOVERNED by AMA; they are the ones that need to be lobbied for change. If they want it, its law!

Their information is as follows:

5161 E. Memorial Dr. Muncie IN 47302
Tel.: (800) 435-9262 Fax.: (765) 289-4248
http://www.modelaircraft.org/

If anyone is seriously interested in changing safety standards, that's the way to do it; not throw ideas out on a blog and argue about what should be done and what should not be done; call up and find out exactly how to amend safety standards.

I'm quite certain that, if AMA requires anything, IRCHA will adhere to that to the letter of the law as they always have.

Tim

Futaba - Kontronik -SAB Helicopters - GensAce -http://rotorworld.co.uk/

08-10-2016 10:51 PM
PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
revmix

Key Veteran

NJ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

call up
DIY

08-10-2016 11:19 PM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
chas1025

Veteran

TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Tim is right, if you guys want to make a change then contact AMA.

Just make sure to have the following ideas worked out before you start making recommendations:

1. Should there be nets only at helicopter fields/events or should there be nets at all fields

2. If you say only at helicopter fields, then do primarily airplane clubs say no to the hassle and just ban helicopters.

3. If you say yes to needing nets for both helicopter and airplane clubs, how many little clubs can't afford this and just close.

4. Have in your mind the dimensions of the nets and type of net material you want to recommend to AMA for what you feel is safe. An idea without thought is just hot air.

5. Do towns or land owners hear that model aviation is dangerous enough to need nets at all locations and they decide to not allow people because of the perceived liability?

08-11-2016 12:16 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
RICH.L

Key Veteran

east springfield p.a.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

my buddy and I sat right up front in the white chairs at center stage for 3 hours Saturday during the demos from heli direct,sab and scorpion.

I knew the risk and accepted it for the great view we had.

those demos were the highlight of my weekend some of the craziest flying I have ever seen.

and probably 6 to 8 crashes hard to say as I lost count.

not sure why people fly in the soybean fields when there was probably 14 flight stations open on the east end where we camped.
rich

08-11-2016 12:18 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
jhartsock3

Senior Heliman

Greenwood, IN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I'm not saying nets are the way to go. But distance is. Every flight station at ircha was well over 40ft from the canopies of the spectators. With one exception center stage. Where the pilot was a whole lot closer. (I assume to keep the pilot even with rest of flight line). Also better enforcement of the ama rules would go a long way. Like not flying in no fly zones.

08-11-2016 12:37 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
RICH.L

Key Veteran

east springfield p.a.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

and my buddy and I stopped to pay for camping at the AMA headquarters just like we did last year and the lady said that Ircha would come around and collect the money at our tent.
well needless to say nobody came around to collect anything from us.
I at least tried to pay.

rich

08-11-2016 12:39 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
heliraptor10

Key Veteran

kokomo, in-US

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I chose to discuss it here because I didn't want to ring up the AMA and say, "you need a net." I wanted to hear from others. For all I know a Heli has crossed the flight line every year at IRCHA (I've only been to four) and usually no one gets hurt.

If a child were to be hit and killed or maimed by something the media considers a "drone" (don't argue with me on that, it is what it is) what do you think will happen?

I know this could happen anywhere there is a crash and there is a child in the vicinity, and the media would sensationalize it as well.

But if it happens at a sanctioned event then the whole hobby will be blamed.

And while I acknowledge a net won't stop all the helis,

It is virtually garaunteed that it will make a difference in the severity of the injury.

Goblin! where have you been all my life?

08-11-2016 01:22 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
chas1025

Veteran

TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The incident at center stage was quite rare. For an event of this size it is quite safe, and there are safety plans in place.

Carey mentioned the nets at the Orlano event as a safety measure, but do they have EMS and Police on site for the safety of attendees?

As far as I am aware, the IRCHA Jamboree is the only large event that employs EMS and Law Enforcement during the event. The bill for these two items runs little over 3,000.00 during the event.

08-11-2016 01:54 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
gologo

Key Veteran

Sedalia, Mo USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Carey mentioned the nets at the Orlano event as a safety measure, but do they have EMS and Police on site for the safety of attendees?
As far as I am aware, the IRCHA Jamboree is the only large event that employs EMS and Law Enforcement during the event. The bill for these two items runs little over 3,000.00 during the event.
Charles I would say nothing against that whatsoever, it is always great to
see those guys at each IRCHA, and thank you guys for that! The only thing is that what is being discussed here is to try to prevent needing EMS

As guys have mentioned above, I willingly assume all risks when I walk the
flightline, watching all the flying, and assume the risks when I go out to
a cone to fly. But at centerstage, people are packed in there like sardines
with really nowhere to go if a heli comes in. That is really the only place
a net or somesuch, would really make sense. Again, moving the flightline out like you did was great too.

08-11-2016 02:20 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
heliraptor10

Key Veteran

kokomo, in-US

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I'm hoping for a step ahead of that.

Ems is great, in the event of a serious injury.
And being there it decreases the likelihood of a fatality. So that's awesome. But Safety wise, that's too late.

I realize we can't put the audience in a box,
But isn't there something in-between that and what we have now?
Something practical?

Here's an idea.

Raise the stands up. The accident Saturday is the most likely to result in an injury.
In the air aside from a malfunction (which given the care taken with equipment I see as less likely than contact with the ground) the pilot is in control of the Heli. Only serious pilot error is going to make it cross the flight line (not sure what happened with the Oxy, a gust?)
Contact with the ground is inevitable. In a way, it's kind of the point to push the limits of proximity. But when the wrong parts hit the ground it causes a failure, you hit throttle hold and the Heli more or less follows a parabolic arc back to the ground (absent of further intervention).

If you move the audience up (not much) and back you exponentially decrease the odds of contact in the ground contact failure scenario.

There are other failure scenarios, such as mid air collision, where raising the audience up is less effective.

It's just a thought.

This whole thread is just a thought. I've been pondering this issue since Benny Chi got hit in the eye. Why is it so bad to think and talk about safety?

Goblin! where have you been all my life?

08-11-2016 02:50 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
WATCH  8 pages [ <<    <     1      2     ( 3 )     4      5     NEXT    >> ] 4963 views POST REPLY
AlignRC Scorpion Power
 Print TOPIC Advertisers 

 29  Topic Subscribe

Sunday, September 25 - 3:01 am - Copyright © 2000-2016 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies