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Thunder Power RC ProModeler
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Just the fact my needle settings and particularly the idle screw need to be quite rich to run well. Crank case pressure might be the answer now you mention it. Do I just need the hz-r rear cover plate and put the nipple from the muffler in and block the muffler nipple hole with a screw?

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-13-2016 01:20 PM
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dgoss999

Senior Heliman

UK

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I am not sure that will work.

Maybe the 1 way valve from YS. to keep the pressure from blowing back to the crank case along with a pressure release/regulator device on the tank... The issue here is that when you vent excess pressure from the tank, you will probably release fuel too..

Really what you need is a regulator between the backplate and the tank to control the pressure released into the fuel tank.

I see the big problem with all this is typically with a exhaust pressure system, the tank pressure will increase as the engine revs rise (As the exhaust pressure rises)and vice versa! And you don't get fuel pouring out of an open vent pipe.....

You say the problem is the idle mixture. Are you defining 'rich' by how far you have the needle screwed out, or another factor?? If the idle IS rich, when you pinch the fuel tube to stop the motor from idle, the revs will rise significantly before the engine stops.. If this does not happen, your idle mixture is not so rich!!

DG

"Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see." • Benjamin Franklin

08-13-2016 03:00 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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I have the idle screw fully open (90 degrees anticlockwise from factory). The idle still fluctuates slightly at idle, going up and down every 5 seconds or so. I get a nice increase in rpm before it dies when shutting the fuel off. There is no fuel spitting front the exhaust at idle and it doesn't smoke excessively and revs pick up immediately even when cold. Mid needle also needs to be around 2 turns out.

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-13-2016 03:38 PM
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don s

Key Veteran

Chesapeake, VA

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How does it run at factory settings?

Have you taken the carb apart to clean it?

E820, Raptor G4N, X50F/E, E620, Forza 450, and some planks.

08-13-2016 05:12 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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With the idle at factory it's very lean. I haven't had the carb apart but have replaced orings that were a bit suspect. I just presumed if there was a blockage it would run really badly or not at all?

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-13-2016 05:15 PM
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don s

Key Veteran

Chesapeake, VA

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I wonder if there's a partial blockage somewhere...

E820, Raptor G4N, X50F/E, E620, Forza 450, and some planks.

08-13-2016 11:07 PM
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GREYEAGLE

Elite Veteran

Flat Land's

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From what I can read : Sure could be sour fuel that has absorbed a lot of water - methanol + Nitro is extremely hydroscopic.

It will actually pull moisture from the atmosphere thru a Poly Jug.
You can't aviod it if it's Old Fuel.

Really touchy to contamination : On my Big Rossies / .81 /90 /1.05 I also run Low Nitro. Only on the 45 do I run 10 to 15

Take a ponder at the AGE of your fuel / How you store it / Is the container a absolutely air tight.

Even swings in temp from Sunlight to cool or from a air conditioned basement to a trunk in the heat will promote contamination as the void in the jug condensates out.

Another is extreme cold as the Lubrication package's can begin link up especially some synthetic's or Parrifin bases.

Try a Fresh JUG maybe start using a transfer Jug : Take just enuff of that fuel to the field for the day.

One way to TEST your Jug is to SHake the Snot out of it ! You should see LOT's of Tiney Bubbles : Old Moon Shine Trick for Alcohol Content

Maybe Scankey Fuel - Can you salvage OLD Fuel : YUP but you gota be in the Petro Industry or know the desiccant / they use a cartridge to grab the H2O .

Shake-ing a Jug is EASY - Looking for TINY Bubbles = LOT's

greyeagle

08-14-2016 04:10 AM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Since found more reports of the lynx MOAS causing engine to get leaner throughout the flight but then noticed they have made a v2 MOAS which they say improves fuel flow and is also heavier so it stays with the fuel better. Bought one, tried it, worse than the original! Back to standard clunk!
More testing done and i've found out why the MOAS v2 fuel magnet didn't work well, it was my fault! I also removed the filter I had between header and engine to eliminate it incase it was that that was blocked. It had a sintered filter inside which I guess also filters out tiny air bubbles like a bubble-less clunk.

The MOAS clunk when out of fuel for a second produces millions of tiny air bubbles as it tries to suck fuel, these were going into my header and straight into the engine!

With the sintered filter back in the engine is happy again HOWEVER I had also gone back to a standard clunk!

I honestly think the MOAS produces such tiny air bubbles that they were passing straight through the sintered filter and have concluded that the best fix would be to have a bubbleless clunk in the main AND header as well as the bubbleless filter!

Greyeagle, I am using a new gallon of Optifuel 25 SLV which is kept in a cool stone building.

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-15-2016 11:17 AM
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GREYEAGLE

Elite Veteran

Flat Land's

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Good ! Did the NEw gallon make a Change ? and did the Problem's occur on the Old Gallon : Keep it AIRTIGHT

Did you check it for Fizz or Bubbles ?

Or did the problem's occur on the NEW gallon :

If it Did It's Not the Fuel

Here is a good rendition of a fuel Filter :

A. What defeat's Fuel Filters and sends the problem down line ?
the beginning of a struggle

OR

B. Where Did it come from ?? Source of origin

Not the same filter { But Same principal }

greyeagle

08-18-2016 03:17 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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I have now fixed the issue with the OS bubbleless clunk in the main tank and the 3 way sintered filter from header to engine. The OS bubbleless clunk is also heavier than a standard clunk.

The problem was the fuel 'fizzing up' in the tank during fast back and forth 3D moves like tick tocks.

Going back to my original post I think all this lean running towards the end of the tank has prematurely worn the new ring and liner as the compression is low and im still chasing the needles between too rich and lacking power and slightly leaner and running hot.

What I didn't mention was the ring and piston were changed due to the piston ring retaining pin breaking (common problem on the 105) and the ring had spun and opened into the ports. The liner looks fine with no scoring but if the sharp edges of the ports have worn that's surely going to effect compression, inlet and exhaust timing. I will run it as long as I can but it will eventually NEED a new piston (OS now have a new piston with a solid retaining pin), ring and liner which isn't going to be cheap £££!!!

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-19-2016 01:27 PM
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Andy from Sandy

Key Veteran

Bedfordshire, UK

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I have only ever used the OMI fuel magnet and never had fuel feed problems.

Unlike the MOAS it doesn't float on top of the fuel and doesn't need extra weight to keep it in the fuel.

Like you I always refill after a flight to clear the gas from the tank and so far it hasn't shown any signs of deteriorating.

You found the new piston and ring. I was going to mention that.

08-21-2016 12:37 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Yes I used to use the OMI fuel magnet which was awesome and never even needed a header tank but for some reason my lhs stopped stocking them. It did break up eventually but if you keep an eye on your filter it's no problem.

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-21-2016 12:47 PM
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Andy from Sandy

Key Veteran

Bedfordshire, UK

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http://www.skylinemodels.co.uk/OMI-...nd-Accessories/

Got my last foams from here and it looks like you can get the complete magnet if required.

08-21-2016 01:28 PM
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wjvail

Key Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

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Richard...

I don't think this is as hard as you are making it. By that I mean a brass clunk and the right filter is usually all you need. I personally run a header tank but I'm old school. It's just easier to leave the header tank on than take it off. I even have a header tank on my DRS engines and that make no sense at all.

I have tried dozens different filters over the years and many of them make matters worse rather than better. The sintered filters clog with oil and the engine struggles to draw fuel. The filters with a flat little screen in them are often too course to filter small trash and immediately clog with the first bit of large trash.

I have, and occasionally use, OS bubbleless filter/clunks but I've seen no advatage and at $15 dollars, they are not worth it. The o-ring on the OS will break and the coarse nature of the OS clunk scars up the inside of the tank. The best I can say about the OS clunk is that it doesn't seem to hurt anything.

The only filters I've found that meet all my needs are the little aluminum filters with the small cone filter in them. They are self cleaning and will filter a ton of trash before stopping up. Align makes a variant of them but I personally don't care for the polycarbonate body. They do work well though. Lucky for us Dynamite makes some of the best filters I've ever used. I put them on everything. They make a nice fuel jug clunk.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/pro-fuel-filter-dyn2006

I will never run a OMI type filter in a glow/nitro heli again. As I've posted elsewhere, some people swear by them - some swear at them. http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t662675p1/

Are you sure you don't have a fuel foaming problem? As I began, this shouldn't be that hard. An unregulated engine will lean a bit during a flight but not to any large extent.

There are an assortment of issues that could lead to an engine being difficult to tune. Here is a short list of things to check.
-- Backplate, head, or carburetor (including drawbar) not sealing well. The OS 1.05 has o-rings on the drawbar but they are easily cut installing the carb. Silicon sealant works well in and around the carb.
-- Proper fuel lines and pluming. Plug the line at the engine and inflate a fully fueled tank with air. See if it pisses fuel somewhere. Leave it on the bench inflated for a period of time and see if a puddle forms under the model. This will not check the clunk line. A damage clunk line will work perfectly until the fuel level drops below a certain level exposing the fault. You get a great run for 1/2 a tank and it goes lean or quits. This can also be tough to trouble shoot.
-- Carby in good condition. Cool or tired O-rings come to mind.
-- Muffler not sealing well. This results in inconsistent tank pressure and you will pull your hair out trying to tune.
-- Make sure your fuel is dry fuel. Nitro isn't the problem. Methanol is... Wet fuel will run great up until a certain point. Once a certain amount of water is absorbed the engine will usually start and run fine but will simply shut off at random times.
-- As discussed, a worn or tired piston, ring, cylinder makes life harder.
-- Over compressed. Too much compression hurts plugs and will force you to run an engine rich to avoid other problems. My 1.05 likes both the .1mm an .2mm shim installed with 30% nitro. Mine was fussy with just the .1mm in it.
-- Too much oil in your fuel will cause problems. Oil doesn't burn and fouls combustion. I find that anything more than 16% only makes the engine harder to tune and run hotter. I've experimented with fuels containing 30% oil and they are impossible to tune.
-- A worn crank and older front bearing can lead to air leaks. It usually begins by spitting fuel all over and people treat the mess rather than the air leak. Consider a two-rubber-shield (2RS) bearing. Some will tell you have to remove one shield and others will tell you this won't help the problem. I can only say it works for me. I leave both shield installed.
-- Vibration leading to fuel foaming. If your tank looks like a sudsy washing machine, back up and start over. You have to fix this first. I scrapped my Stratus for this reason. I will not buy another helicopter that mounts the engine from the backplate.

Too many words for one post. Sorry.

It just shouldn't be that tough to get a 1.05 up on the step. Even worn you should be able to have and enjoyable weekend.

Cheers,

Bill

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

08-21-2016 04:17 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Like I said the fuel feed problem was solved with the bubbleless clunk, Lynx MOAS and standard clunk's didn't cut it for hard 3d flying.

I can fly the heli fine and it has enough power for 3d but I just know the engine has more to give. I'm 99% sure a new liner will fix this.

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-21-2016 04:37 PM
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datidun

Key Veteran

N Ireland

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I think the OS bubbless is a good choice,I use the solid one no rubber ring,the standard clunk is in the main and the OS in the header,its far better that way as I land with a with the header half full and no air bubbles getting through.

08-29-2016 10:40 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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I actually flew every last drop out of mine a few days ago, it suddenly quit in flight! No leaning out at all!

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-29-2016 10:52 PM
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