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AlignRC Scorpion Power
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Assuming never a lean run, how many gallons would you say you can get through before the need for a ring change?

How many ring changes per liner??

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-05-2016 01:41 PM
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don s

Key Veteran

Chesapeake, VA

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I've only heard to replace the ring when it becomes shiny and/or compression is low.

E820, Raptor G4N, X50F/E, E620, Forza 450, and some planks.

08-05-2016 06:35 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Don't they become shiny when they are simply run in?

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-05-2016 06:36 PM
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GREYEAGLE

Elite Veteran

Flat Land's

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Probably the Easiest with out doing a white paper :

{Their Can be Several False Flags}

Is to have a sense of the bottom end compression with out the plug in it. Or the down stroke as the case is charged. You should be able to feel it

If it's pumped make a plug with fuel tubing short and a screw.

False flag would be a like stuck ring from storage - or a compromised seal surface. Or type of piston.

Then the OEM specs and Pass Fail tolerances - right into operating conditions.

Save the Queen !

greyeagle

08-05-2016 09:18 PM
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wjvail

Key Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

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Too many variables to put a precise number on the question. One of the most obvious variables is what size engine?

As a data point, my OS .37 now has about 11 gallons through it and it's still going strong. That equates to roughly 26 hours run time.

The rest of my engines are also in the 11/12 gallon range but 11 gallons on a 1.05 is not the same as 11 gallons on a 30.

Any of that help???

Cheers,

Bill

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

08-05-2016 10:06 PM
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don s

Key Veteran

Chesapeake, VA

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I would just go by compression.

E820, Raptor G4N, X50F/E, E620, Forza 450, and some planks.

08-05-2016 10:31 PM
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Four Stroker

Elite Veteran

Atlanta

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I would go by how well the engine is running ? IF it ain't broke, don't fix it.

08-06-2016 01:18 AM
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PilotPin

Senior Heliman

Indiana -- USA

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If it's never had a lean run and still runs good there's no reason to worry about it. I wouldn't mess it even if it's had 1000s of runs . But thats the way I am run it till it breaks.

08-06-2016 01:45 AM
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Four Stroker

Elite Veteran

Atlanta

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On the other hand, If I replaced the bearings, I would also do the ring.

08-06-2016 02:49 AM
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Chopper Man100

Veteran

Canton GA.

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Compression test.

08-06-2016 03:17 PM
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wjvail

Key Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

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I personally have not found compression testing of model engines to be of particular value.

Compression seems to vary widely depending on many variables. A dry engine with a Dyke's ring always feels like it has the wrong size piston in it. Zero compression even when in perfect condition.

Engines with a conventional ring seem to be widely influenced by how much residual oil they have in them. Compression in an engine designed for fuel with 20% 50wt oil will be influenced by how much oil is actually in the engine.

Ring end gap is designed to close as the ring heats up with running. The ring end gap on a cold engine is often .010". That is a LOT for the bore of a 15cc engine. It makes it hard to judge compression when cold and below the designed RPM.

I have engine compression testers but again, I don't find them very valuable. To get any sort of reading you must spin the engine over briskly with a starter. That produces a numeric value but I don't know what to do with the number. As a single cylinder engine there are no other jugs to compare too, and without a shop manual to provide specifications, what am I actually reading?

Engines that are worn and in need of rebuilding will tend to run hot and become difficult to needle. Slightly lean and they run smelly hot. Richen 'em up to run cooler and they run weak and girgally rich. You can spend the afternoon chasing the needles tying to find a setting that runs smooth, cool, and with good power - and as soon as you start getting close, it goes smelly smokey hot.

There are a myriad of signs that suggest and engine needs refreshing. I haven't personally found turning an engine over by hand or starter to be that effective.

Just my opinion..

Bill

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

08-06-2016 06:55 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Engines that are worn in need of rebuilding will tend to run hot and become difficult to needle. Slightly lean and they run smelly hot. Richen 'em up to run cooler and they run weak and girgally rich. You can spend the afternoon chasing the needles tying to find a setting that runs smooth, cool, and with good power - and as soon as you start getting close, it goes smelly smokey hot.
Sounds exactly like what im experiencing. The ring and piston is fairly new though so I suspect it could need a new liner. There is no heavy scoring on the liner but I recently had the clutch rubbing against the top of the bell causing a fine aluminium dust which will no doubt have been sucked into the engine! It also starts getting leaner after half a tank so I think there is a leak in the tank somewhere although the header always stays full?! Anyway I recon with a new liner and sorting the tank leak out it'll be good as new! I will sort the tank leak out first of course to see if that is the main problem. It is a 105 and it does spin over quite easily with my standard 12v starter, I'm sure I've felt more resistance when starting it before which is why I think the fine aluminium dust from the clutch has accelerated liner wear. Damn those liners are expensive!

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-06-2016 07:50 PM
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Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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A smoked clutch/liner does assuredly accelerate wear at an alarming rate. Black rings are good. A hint of silver is not typically a problem. All silvered means time for a new ring. If the crosshatch pattern in the sleeve is worn away, replace the liner too.

Worn engines are indeed finicky to tune, esp. pressure regulated ones. They're either too rich or too lean and make no power regardless.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

08-06-2016 08:17 PM
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joecass

Veteran

NJ

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I recon with a new liner and sorting the tank leak out it'll be good as new! I will sort the tank leak out first of course to see if that is the main problem. It is a 105 and it does spin over quite easily with my standard 12v starter, I'm sure I've felt more resistance when starting it before which is why I think the fine aluminium dust from the clutch has accelerated liner wear. nyway I recon with a new liner and sorting the tank leak out it'll be good as new! I will sort the tank leak out first of course to see if that is the main problem. It is a 105 and it does spin over quite easily with my standard 12v starter, I'm sure I've felt more resistance when starting it before which is why I think the fine aluminium dust from the clutch has accelerated liner wear. Damn those liners are expensive!
The best way to find a tank leak is to take the hole fuel system out of the Heli with all the lines. Take the header tank with the main tank. drain all the fuel out plug one end of the line and blow into the other end trapping air in. Now the hole system is under pressure all fuel lines, filter, both tanks. Now fill up your kitchen sink with water and push the hole fuel system under water and check for bubbles. I did this to mine and found some small leaks this helped with tunning. my idle Sometimes would surge on its own do to the leaks. Not anymore

love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you

08-07-2016 01:23 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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I pulled the tank out and was able to pressurize it using a Presta valve bike pump and found no leaks. Clunk lines are all like new also (I refill the tank everytime to get rid of harmful exhaust gasses in the tank).

This is a 105hz NOT hz-r so I might just need to get used to leaning 3-4 clicks at the start, landing half way through the flight and richening 3-4 clicks and flying the rest of the tank, is this fairly normal for a non regulated motor?

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-08-2016 11:10 AM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Well after some more Googling I found an old post where someone swapped out their MOAS fuel magnet (which I use) for a regular clunk and their tuning problems went away. I put in the standard clunk that came in the kit and blow me down it worked! No more gradually leaning out throughout the flight and more power! It also fuels up quicker from my electric fuel pump!

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-08-2016 06:07 PM
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joecass

Veteran

NJ

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Nice

love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you

08-08-2016 06:36 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Since found more reports of the lynx MOAS causing engine to get leaner throughout the flight but then noticed they have made a v2 MOAS which they say improves fuel flow and is also heavier so it stays with the fuel better. Bought one, tried it, worse than the original! Back to standard clunk!

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-13-2016 10:27 AM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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While I'm here, does anyone know if putting a slight pinch in the muffler deflector with a cable tie would increase muffler pressure for higher tank pressure? Or maybe drilling the muffler nipple out slightly?

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-13-2016 10:29 AM
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dgoss999

Senior Heliman

UK

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While I'm here, does anyone know if putting a slight pinch in the muffler deflector with a cable tie would increase muffler pressure for higher tank pressure? Or maybe drilling the muffler nipple out slightly?
Richard... With exhaust pressured fuel tank, The only way to increase the pressure in the tank is to increase the pressure in the muffler..

Pinching or drilling out the nipple will change the flow not so much the pressure. A restrictor will reduce the speed the tank get to pressure and how quickly it looses it.. If you need more pressure in the tank - find a higher pressure source.. (the crank case for example!)

Restrict the outlet of the exhaust (silicon deflector or longer tail pipe will do this) will in increase the pressure in the muffler, but then could strangle the engine.. Overheats etc...

What is your requirement here for more tank pressure??

DG

"Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see." • Benjamin Franklin

08-13-2016 12:27 PM
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