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meowguy

Veteran

Saco, ME

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Received lots of good help here so far, hoping for a little more.

Setting up my first iKon, very puzzled over the Bail Out, Fail Safe, or Rescue whatever we are calling it now.

iKon has two confusing items "Use Auto Level" and "Use Rescue". Neither one is explained in any detail at all in the instructions either written or in the app. You cannot select "Rescue" unless you first check "Auto Level". So you can use Auto Level without rescue apparently? Why would I want to do that?

The reason I bought this controller is that I want to flip a switch and have the heli recover to a hover, straight and level, and climb slightly. No matter whether I am upside down, sideways, or headed into the ground. I have very bad results with Spektrum which crashed two helis for me.(:-()

Do you know how to set this up, or can you point me to some coherent, English, video or text that explains this setup process in detail specifically for bail out steady level hover with some way to bench test to assure it's doing what I want?

As always I appreciate the support I get on RunRyder.

"Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground." J. Taylor

07-19-2016 01:47 PM
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pctomlin

Senior Heliman

Texas

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Auto level will bring the heli back to upright with you controlling collective. Turning on Rescue adds the iKon adding negative pitch if inverted to start the heli moving up, flipping to upright with positive pitch to continue the climb. Of course if you are upright it just goes up. Sounds like you are setting up in the Bank Switching. You can set up rescue on its own channel if you have an eight channel transmitter/receiver on Aux also.

PM me your phone number if you would like to talk through the setup this evening.

Why is it someone so bad at being in charge......... wants to be in charge so bad?

07-19-2016 05:13 PM
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ticedoff8

Key Veteran

Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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Basically: What pctomlin said.

"Self Level" and "Rescue" are the terms used by MSH on the Brain and iKON.
The two units are identical and use the same software.

I use the Brain, but the only real difference between them is the color of the case and who markets the units to the public in the US

Make sure you are upgraded to the latest: 2.0.008

The Brain will "learn" what upright looks like when the Brain is first powered on and initialized.
There is no more requirement to trim the heli. This is different from Skookum and the older versions of MSH software

Once the Brain knows what "upright" looks like, the Self Level and Rescue features are ready to use.

Assuming that you have followed the instructions and setup the basics, the SL and Rescue are ready to use.
If you had to do something that seemed odd during the setup, you may have problems

The Brain will normally do 3 pitch pumps at initialization.
If the Brain does more than 3 pitch pumps (like 12 or 16), it means that the gyros or accelerometers have failed the initialization or the unit is not level at power up.
In this case, the SL and Recuse feature is disabled.

The Rescue can be assigned to a channel on the radio and/or banks.
Some will use a momentary switch for Rescue.
If it assigned to a bank, they switching to that bank will activate Rescue.

The Rescue will apply corrections to the servos to an upright (mostly) orientation.
If the heli is inverted, the Brain will apply a little bump of negative collective before it starts to flip upright (to avoid a low altitude ground strike as it is rolling to upright)
Once the Brain is more or less upright, it applies positive pitch at starts a climb.
Control will slowly pass back to the pilot starting about 1 second after Rescue is enabled.

I would highly recommend first testing SL or Rescue at a decent altitude.
I would start with a hover at a decent altitude and then switch on Rescue.
The expectations are:
* The heli start a quick climb out
* The cyclic gets mushy and fights you
* The collective stops responding your input and then slowly comes back to you

When you switch out of Rescue, you should instantly get 100% control back to you.

My sig is not fit for public viewing.

07-19-2016 06:10 PM
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meowguy

Veteran

Saco, ME

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I am not familiar with the term "banks". Are you referring to the three different flight setups you can set with the check boxes for Auto Level and Rescue? Do you have to use those? I would just prefer one setup with "Sport Mode". Then just have a single switch (Such as "A" on the DX9} for full bailout with pitch and leveling.

Does that sound right?

"Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground." J. Taylor

07-19-2016 08:18 PM
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ticedoff8

Key Veteran

Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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I am not familiar with the term "banks". Are you referring to the three different flight setups you can set with the check boxes for Auto Level and Rescue? Do you have to use those? I would just prefer one setup with "Sport Mode". Then just have a single switch (Such as "A" on the DX9} for full bailout with pitch and leveling.

Does that sound right?
Those are referred to as "banks".

On my DX9, I've assigned the bank selection to switch E on the transmitter.

I do not use banks for SL / Rescue.
I use banks as you are describing.
I set different gains, different cyclic or tail rates to help fine tune.

EG: I can have a conservative setting for bank 1 and try a higher gain in bank 2 and still higher gain in bank 3. Then fly and switch between the banks to see what works. Then transfers those settings to bank 1 and try something else on bank 2 & 3.

I have tested the Rescue using the "AUX 2" channel assigned to the "bind" switch on the transmitter.
Push "bind" and you get rescue.

However, I don't use Rescue.
If I really needed it, I would assign it to the Throttle Hold switch.
My "muscle memory" reflexively hits TH when I get into trouble.

My sig is not fit for public viewing.

07-19-2016 08:34 PM
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meowguy

Veteran

Saco, ME

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It's getting a little more clear now. So if I use switch A (Aux 2 channel 7) how do I program for Auto Level and Rescue? Do I just check both boxes in all the banks?

"Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground." J. Taylor

07-19-2016 10:03 PM
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pctomlin

Senior Heliman

Texas

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You only want to setup level/rescue on one bank preferably. If you are not interested in changing up the feel of the heli using the banks you could setup level on one bank and rescue on another. Depending on how you flip your three way switch would choose which mode you wanted, rescue or level, normal flight in middle position.

I like to assign rescue to Aux3 now that this option is available and use the banks for changing flight styles. Since I pinch and use a tray (old fart) I assigned switch E to Aux3 on the DX18 and flip it away from me to engage rescue, the other two positions are off.

If the 9 is like my 18 the A switch is only two positions and would not work for bank switching, needs a three position switch.

Why is it someone so bad at being in charge......... wants to be in charge so bad?

07-19-2016 11:42 PM
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Dawiev

Senior Heliman

Middle East

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07-20-2016 12:53 AM
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crespo1

Heliman

parksville new york

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9dx are all 3 position swicthes

07-20-2016 01:26 AM
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old nitroman

Senior Heliman

Naples florida

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I use the Ikon, and I really like the banks for setups I want to tryout, then just switch it out if you don't like it. My ships are setup as normal is sport, 2 is set up to 3d, and 3 setup extreme 3d, then I start to tweak from there. If I was to use the rescue I would too put on TH by habit I would hit TH. Like if you use only use sport the set them all to sport, then make small adjustment to 2 and 3 see if you like it, or set up rescue on 2 to try a new maneuver. I have been very happy with the Ikon, and I use the Bluetooth and a small tablet for any adjustments at the field.

E5s and E7se Building Roban bell 222 800 superscale

07-20-2016 05:29 AM
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artimus

Key Veteran

Buckley WA

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If I really needed it, I would assign it to the Throttle Hold switch.
My "muscle memory" reflexively hits TH when I get into trouble.
What happens when you land and hit the throttle hold. Will it jump up in the air and kill the motor?

Fly Hard......Team Viagra

07-20-2016 06:27 AM
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meowguy

Veteran

Saco, ME

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I may decide to use the bind button after some testing. Advantage being it shuts itself off when released. I too do not see using TH switch for bailout, you need it for TH. For now I am using switch A on the DX9.

"Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground." J. Taylor

07-21-2016 01:19 PM
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old nitroman

Senior Heliman

Naples florida

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I'm old school, throttle hold was it, there was no bailout, are bail out was drop transmitter and run

E5s and E7se Building Roban bell 222 800 superscale

08-17-2016 07:46 PM
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Toadster25

Key Veteran

Iowa

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My problem with bail out is I don't want to loose TH and the quick reaction I've trained myself to automatically reach for when something goes wrong. If something goes wrong I don't want the machine going full power out of control trying to bail itself out. I'd rather have it idle down and hit the ground.

I tried the bail out on another switch but just decided at my age I don't think I want to train myself to try and learn a new switch when I'm going to crash. I haven't pushed myself to learn anything new lately but if I ever do I will try to learn the the bail out at that point.

08-17-2016 11:15 PM
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old nitroman

Senior Heliman

Naples florida

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with me by the time I find the switch, can get out the screw up I put in. I guess I would work if your high enough. I just don't use it

E5s and E7se Building Roban bell 222 800 superscale

08-18-2016 06:05 AM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Height always used to work for bailing out! Or the use of the sim!

60% of the time, it works every time!

08-18-2016 10:49 AM
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meowguy

Veteran

Saco, ME

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As our infamous (Patriots) football coach likes to say "we are who we are". I am a guy who has crashed many times because I learned to fly way before we had simulators. I would bring home a bag full of parts almost every week. So I come from the point of view that I have had as much of that as I can reasonably stand for one lifetime. In recent years I have suffered some really spectacular losses trying 3D stuff, one very nearly crashing into me, another left out in the woods for 18 months.

Anything that will help avoid a crash is worth a try. So I am in the process of converting my BeastX machines to iKon controllers with the "Rescue" functionality. I personally found the BeastX add-on SAFE to be too full of "gotch ya's" in the setup process. The iKon has proven to be a very straight forward installation and setup. That's the way I am going.

With the help of some great folks on this forum, I am overcoming the learning curve on the iKon and am getting more comfortable with it all the time. I have the iphone APP and am buying Bluetooth equipped iKons. This allows easy adjustments at the field, but once setup you really don't have to touch a thing.

I am using the "A" switch on the DX9 for Resue. The "A" switch (rear left hand corner) is the opposite twin of the conventional TH switch (rear right hand corner). A little practice is required to show your fingers where everything is. This is done at the workbench on rainy days.

"Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground." J. Taylor

08-18-2016 12:48 PM
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old nitroman

Senior Heliman

Naples florida

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perfect, I like the Bluetooth too, small tablet good to go

E5s and E7se Building Roban bell 222 800 superscale

08-18-2016 01:26 PM
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ticedoff8

Key Veteran

Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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FYI: Do not use the iPhone App to setup or make field adjustments to any of the Brain / iKON gyros.
The app has some well known bugs that can cause major problems that you will not detect until you crash.

They are promising an upgrade in the next 2 to 3 months (or sooner).

I use the BT module on all 4 of my Brains.
And do all the setup using my BT enabled Windows PC.
This is much easier than hooking up a USB cable everytime I need to adjust something.

When the updated iOS App gets released, I'll go back to using my iPad

But, I would NEVER try to use the PC App or the iOS App while the heli is powered up and ready to fly (or, flying).
I just think that is crazy.
MSH is working on Jeti integration (for those lucky enough to afford a $1,400 radio system) that will allow full uplink / downlink through the TX.
I have asked for a Spektrum X-Bus output (for the TM1000) - but they are not interested in that.

I don't use Auto Level at all.
I can activate Rescue using the two position switch "A".
Since one of my Brain fails the accelerometer test at initialization, I cannot rely on it to help if I get jammed up.

BTW:
9dx are all 3 position swicthes
This comment is wrong.
The A and the H switch are 2 position.
The Bind switch is also a 2 position with "momentary"

I use the A for Rescue and the H for Throttle Cutoff.

My sig is not fit for public viewing.

08-18-2016 07:47 PM
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meowguy

Veteran

Saco, ME

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I use the A for Rescue and the H for Throttle Cutoff.
All good points.

I think some are using the Bind Button for rescue, but I'm using that for throttle cut on my nitros. So I went with "A". I should also be able to have some control over the heli in rescue mode, and can then flip it off when I feel ready to take over, as opposed to holding down the bind button and tying up my left hand. Thanks for the info on the app also...it doesn't even have Rescue mode on the menus. I use a Dell Mini 10 running Windows XP with a Bluetooth USB adapter.

"Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground." J. Taylor

08-18-2016 08:12 PM
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