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AlignRC Scorpion Power
datidun

Key Veteran

N Ireland

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Ok got a chance to fly it tonight,I turned the tail gain up to 90%,no tail wag,head speed 2400 idle up 2,the tail was solid,went into idle up 1,2300 head speed,on the 3rd tic toc the tail swung outwhy is this happening,Im thinking its loosing head speed in idle up 1,gov gain set to medium.

07-27-2016 09:01 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Any chance of a video of this occurrence? I think it's the only way to determine what the problem is.

60% of the time, it works every time!

07-27-2016 09:16 PM
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datidun

Key Veteran

N Ireland

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I got word back from a few guys,they replied they has seen it before on the Dominator 550l,its because the head speed is to low for that heli and the Gov cant control it,at competitions they fly them at 2400 and much higher,so it looks like anything below 2400 for 3d is not a match,I find it strange though.

07-27-2016 11:03 PM
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Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Is there a speed up tail option?

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

07-27-2016 11:38 PM
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icanfly

Elite Veteran

ontario

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you still are using stock tail blades? most 3d'rs would have gone with another manufacturer by now. It's tt so no sped up tail options afaik.

I can't say much about the gov option, 95 gain on the tail and about 6 on the bx tail control pot should hold it pretty good if it isn't bouncing, and try a little more on the pot if you want faster stick reaction and return to center.

From the sounds of your experience your a well seasoned 3d'r, you'll work it out, (ya, change the tail blades to rail or switch or something well known for 3d other than stock).

If the 550l had a tri tail or sped up option, but yea, I would have thought 2400 was at the low end so it's a bit of a problem if the tail can't be sped up. My solution would have been to go with shorter mains and longer tail blades for low rpm. I think they run the 55l at 2700 to 2900rpm stock for 3d if I'm not mistaken. Makes the 550l nogo for low rpm 3d huh.

07-28-2016 01:06 AM
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Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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What is the tail ratio and tail blade length?

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

07-28-2016 01:14 AM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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1:3.85 which is the problem and it was the same problem with the original 600e Pro.

If the 700 auto rotation tail gear and torque tube drive gear will fit then that is the answer, they give 1:4.37 ratio.

60% of the time, it works every time!

07-28-2016 09:07 AM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Actually you might have better look with the Trex 600n autorotation tail gear and torque tube drive gears as they say it will fit 550e. That would give 4.5 ratio and you'd probably be able to run down to 2000 rpm. The governor might not like it that low though and in that case switching to a larger 5s pack like a 5s 6000 would work a treat and would give you about 30% more flight time!

60% of the time, it works every time!

07-28-2016 09:45 AM
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datidun

Key Veteran

N Ireland

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I dont think tail blades would make a difference,its the low head speed that blows the tail out,this heli was designed for hard 3d thats what I am told,not sure if setting the governor gain to HIGH mode would change anything,thats the whole purpose of a governor,why cant it be like a nitro machine with a gov and do its job.

07-28-2016 11:56 AM
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icanfly

Elite Veteran

ontario

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just throwing ideas out trying to be helpful and seeing if any fit.

Richardmid1's suggestion is probably the best option for lowered rpm.

Nitro? Electric? electric's always higher rpm and it appears gearing reflects that.

07-28-2016 12:41 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Longer tail blades do make a difference, the longer they are the more thrust the tail will have. You just have to be careful about them hitting the mains. You could use 520mm mains and use 95mm tails, that is another option.

About the governor gain, if anything you want to lower the governor gain so it's not kicking the power in and out so aggressively.

There are lots of options to eliminate this problem but I still find it strange that you are having blow outs at 2300 doing simple tic tocs. I'm almost certain that something isn't setup right. PLEASE DOUBLE CHECK that the gain you are adjusting in your TX is actually working i.e. on the correct channel etc.

60% of the time, it works every time!

07-28-2016 01:27 PM
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Solmanbandit

Elite Veteran

Glendale, AZ

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After reading the posts, have you done some throttle pumps? Hover it and then go full throttle vertical. Does your tail blow out? Typically I would say tail gain is just a number, but 90 is awful high and sounds like you have other issues. On my heli's, when I do a throttle pump, the tail holds perfect. That translates into other maneuvers.

Trex 450 Pro-AR7200BX / Trex 500 ESP - Beastx / Trex 600E - Ikon

07-28-2016 06:29 PM
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Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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When you're stuck with the gear ratio you have with the configuration of that model and without upgrades or changes, you're left with gain and tail blade length to hold the tail. After ruling all else out like an error in gyro set up, I would increase to at least 100mm tail blades and see how that works. DO try some strong but not absurdly aggressive climb out and look for tail yaw. If gain is appropriate and the nose still yaws hard left, then you have to add more tail blade and/or go out a hole or two on the tail servo arm.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

07-28-2016 06:36 PM
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rcflyerheli

Key Veteran

Granbury, TX USA

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Which boom and blades are you running? Ihave a buddy that has a 550, and it came with a 600 boom, and with 550 blades.

He is not a hard 3d (actually no 3d), but his setup with the 600 blades, 95 tails works fine for what he is running.

Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX;
Amain Team Rep

07-28-2016 06:36 PM
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Solmanbandit

Elite Veteran

Glendale, AZ

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The heli was designed to work. Often problems stem from set up. I had a tail blow out problem on my 700 when I got it. A minor change to the ESC fixed that problem and it has been perfect ever since.

Trex 450 Pro-AR7200BX / Trex 500 ESP - Beastx / Trex 600E - Ikon

07-28-2016 06:50 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Yep a 600 boom and TT with 95 tails would also solve the problem.

60% of the time, it works every time!

07-28-2016 06:57 PM
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ICUR1-2

Key Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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must be the echo in here

spending time, paying attention

07-28-2016 10:56 PM
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datidun

Key Veteran

N Ireland

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I will triple check the tail set up again,would be good if somebody with the same heli would confirm it does the same 2300 head speed,flying around doing circuits scale flying is good on 2300 head speed thats when the problem does not show up,in theory as the heli is now it should perform 100%,should not have to change anything,but as Richard said it would most probably solve the problem by using longer tail blades.

07-29-2016 10:53 AM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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95mm tails will hit the mains unless you either use 520mm mains or the 600 boom and tt. The 600n tail drive gears I mentioned is your best and cheapest option.

60% of the time, it works every time!

07-29-2016 11:22 AM
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Ladymagic

Key Veteran

South Korea

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+1 for Ronald Thomas

For your stunt modes, try and set a "Flat" curve for E's. Start at about 65%-75% (65-65-65) or (75-75-75) and bump them up to fit your mechanics and personal preference. You can run up to 100& but I would recommend you allow some head room for your ESC compensate during flight. So I like to keep my around 85%-90%.

You can run a 3-point curve for normal mode; something like 0-65-65 is a generic place to start. I would also recommend using your ESC's gov mode if it has one.

This should stop your blowouts which seem to be caused by your motor torqueing over due to your V-Curves instead of applying consistent power which a flat curve will take care of for an E heli.

Good luck.

Mellisa

07-29-2016 12:51 PM
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