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AlignRC Thunder Power RC
datidun

Key Veteran

N Ireland

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So after flying Nitro for 10 years I decided to buy my first electric heli,I went for the Dominator 550l combo as I thought this was a good size to start with,first off I used the curves my idle up curve was 95.85.95,the heli flyes smooth in hover,very stable including circuits,now going into aerobatics this is what I dont understand,doing Elevator tick tocs the tail of the heli blows out making it uncomfortable to fly,I tried more tail gain which is 65%,it did not help,so what causes that,is it the motor lacking power in the middle curve,next I set up the Castle 90 esc to see if it would solve the tail issue,the gain I set to medium and for starters I set the idle up head speed to 2100,it seemed a bit low in the hover but still smooth and stable,so I started doing some tick tocs again,suddenly the tail blew out so badly it looked like an inverted piro almost resulting in a crash,very lucky save,so after doing hours of research I have changed the head speed to 2300 and 2400 and set the current limit to insensitive,my question was the head speed to low to cause this,would it be better to change to insensitive which I have done but not flown again,my servos are set to 6v,using Skookum 540 which I have on all my nitro s,tail servo bl855,I not familiar with electric,please any suggestions.

07-17-2016 11:05 AM
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icanfly

Elite Veteran

ontario

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What tx? I think tail gains on any tail are typically high for 3d. Observe the manual on gain settings in the tx first, then deal with the fbl unit. A good way to test tail authority without getting yourself into difficult to recover moves is to pitch pump (hard/smack pogos) and see if the heli piros on it's own. Torque tube? tighten the gear lash to next to no play.

When your gains are very high the heli should get tail wag, then back off the gain in 5 point increments until the wag goes away and edge back up 1 or 2 points at a time until satisfied and there's no wag.

Head speed for a heli 3d is typically high not low. Try a different set of tail blades.

just sayin

07-17-2016 12:07 PM
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datidun

Key Veteran

N Ireland

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Please read I am using Skookum 540 not ALIGN,the new Dominator 550l is torque tube NOT BELT,my gyro gain is in head hold mode,I am using CF blades.

07-17-2016 12:22 PM
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icanfly

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ontario

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1st reply was edited to reflect the new info . After reading a little more on the skookum your probably looking at bumping up the tail drag comp and/or Collec mix levels.

07-17-2016 12:26 PM
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datidun

Key Veteran

N Ireland

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The Collective mix should only be adjusted if the heli does not stay level during full climb out and full descend,in this case its level and stable ,tail drag I have not touched,it must be an electric thing, something to do with head speed or torqua of the motor,never seen anything like it

07-17-2016 03:42 PM
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icanfly

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ontario

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you don't want to crash right? since there's no instant answer due to many variables I can only suggest a few things in hopes you or anyone taking notes doesn't risk crashing either in similar circumstances. I think then the tail comp might have more to do with it unless it was a plain old blow out from stall on the tail blades causing total cavitation within their airspace (use longer/bigger/better performing tail blades I suppose).

Essentially you are going to have to push the limits on all parameters to discover weaknesses and there are less alerting ways of stressing the machine for those than to experience them during actual 3d performance (very risky).

A Skookum product is in my sights for future helis albeit dependent on price options, a product I firmly have faith in.

Anyone else want to chime in?

07-17-2016 04:41 PM
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ICUR1-2

Key Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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he could try larger tail blades up to 95 mm but that might cause tail gain problems

or try adding cyclic mix for tail in the software

in the swash plate screen reduce your cyclic mix for elevator

this is assuming the tail is set-up

spending time, paying attention

07-17-2016 04:54 PM
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balsapro

Veteran

Gallatin,TN

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Next time you fly, from hover do a full pitch pump. Go from an unloaded disk to full collective loaded disk quickly and let it climb. if the tail kicks out Try Moving the tr servo ball out to the last hole on your servo horn. Make it 16mm or so.

Build the Best, Fly the Best, Crash the Best

07-17-2016 05:18 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Did you get any further with this issue? Did you try it at 2400? Are you getting full tail pitch? Are your battery's old or new? How much pitch are you running?

Remember tock tocks are more about cyclic and less about collective. Use more cyclic and less collective next time you try them.

60% of the time, it works every time!

07-18-2016 02:10 PM
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datidun

Key Veteran

N Ireland

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Thank you for the replies,I decided to give it another go,tail gain is at at 65% so I am sure its not that,everything is brand new including the 6s 5000 mah batteries,pitch pumps are fine no drift,I turned the head speed up to 2400 idle 2,and did the Tick tocs,the tail seemed to hold almost 100% except for a little kick at the top coming out of it,the gov gain is on medium and running 12 degrees collective 10 degrees cyclic,I was tempted to try idle up 1 which is set to head speed of 2300 but was afraid the tail would blow out badly again,it blew out at a head speed of 2200,why would it do that,does the head speed have to be at 2400 for this machine to fly properly,I have watched guys fly on way low head speeds and no problems,flight time 5 minutes max,which takes me just a little over 3.7v per cell.

07-18-2016 04:41 PM
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Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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No Vcurve if you are running a governor with electric. Makes the gov, and in turn you tail, inconsistent. Make it a flat curve and try again...

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

07-18-2016 05:41 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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The 550 is designed to 3d around 2400 rpm. Two things happen when trying to run it lower and do 3d:

1. The tail is obviously spinning slower do has less thrust against main rotor torque.

2. When running in governor mode there will be too much overhead power/rpm which the tail can't control.

If you don't want to run governor mode and want a lower HS try the above suggested flat curve of maybe 75% across the board.

Also check that the gain you are adjusting in your tx is actually adjusting the gain. Turn it right down to say 10% and observe how much the pitch slider moves when rotating the heli, now turn it up high and test it again, you should see the pitch slider move much more with little rotation of the heli.

60% of the time, it works every time!

07-18-2016 05:56 PM
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datidun

Key Veteran

N Ireland

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The curve at the moment
Normal 0.30.30=2000
Idle 1 75.75.75=2300
Idle 2 100.100.100=2400

So if I am using the Gov I cant fly 3d below 2400 head speed
When it was flying on the curves I had it set to 95.85.95 the head speed sounded low and the tail kicked out but not as bad as the tail blowing out on the Governor at 2200 head speed.

07-18-2016 07:07 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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You can, you just need to be more carefully on collective. Also check the iu1 throttle on governor mode, I'm sure it's supposed to be 70 not 75.

From what you have said everything seems OK and you shouldn't be getting such bad tail blowouts even at 2200. It must be something in the tail setup.

60% of the time, it works every time!

07-18-2016 08:03 PM
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icanfly

Elite Veteran

ontario

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or, the main blades your running are reaching into the tail rotor territory. It's actually better to have an inch between both rotors than to get them edge to edge, and you gain some head speed with shorter mains and may loose only a very little "float" as it were.

07-18-2016 10:11 PM
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datidun

Key Veteran

N Ireland

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Its a brand new combo kit which means the main blades and tail blades included are a match,no doubt there.

07-18-2016 10:22 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Have you checked the gain yet?

60% of the time, it works every time!

07-19-2016 10:46 AM
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datidun

Key Veteran

N Ireland

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What gain, tail gain is set to 70 and Gov gain is set to medium.

07-19-2016 12:53 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Tail gain. Have you tried going higher till you get a wag?

60% of the time, it works every time!

07-19-2016 10:08 PM
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datidun

Key Veteran

N Ireland

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Flew it this evening in idle up 2-2400 it was ok,once again a small kick coming out of continues flips, then flew it at 2300 idle 1 after the 3rd flip the tail kicked out more that idle up 2,put the gain up to 75% still NO wag on the tail,had another flight in idle up 1,the kick was there but not as bad,as you said I will put the tail gain up as high as it will go before it starts to wag,I guess the power these electric machines have require more gain.

07-19-2016 10:47 PM
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