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ProModeler Scorpion Power
honda411

Key Veteran

Surprise, AZ USA

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Okay guys, many of you have seen my other post recently about the tail servo getting really hot and burning out. So here is an update.

Jr8917 HV cyclic servos-333hz and 1520 frequency.
Savox 2272mg HV tail servo-200hz and 1520 frequency.
Futaba sbus Rx and 7.4 2s lipo. One power lead going to Rx and one into beastx power plug.

Those are the settings in the beastx plus. Not the HD version. I'm going off the latest 4.0 or 4.1 version. Whatever it is.

Got the new tail servo installed and fought with the beastx governor also and no luck with the simple mode gov. But anyways that's besides the point.

Test flew it normal mode since the engine is going through a break in period.
All was well until half tank again. Within this time frame and landed a few times to check temps. Engine and servos. Servos were getting warm. But okay.
Took back off, and noticed I was in rate mode. So landed and put into HH. Took off again into hover and the tail acted up and started whipping back and forth hard. Not the small gain wag either. The gain was not too high. I just flew it like this no problem. The cyclic seemed mushy and the helicopter wanted to drift and started to tip over, to best put it. Immediately shut it down and grabbed the temp gun.
Cyclic servos came in at a whopping 174 degrees.
Tail servo came in...........now wait for it........200 degrees.
I flew it at midnight, not in the day time, canopy off for airflow and hovering only and it was about 98-100 degrees outside.
I can see 130-140 maybe in 3d flight. Not those temps. So my guess is the beastx is faulty. Well and now my tail servo might be also. The servo still worked fine after shutting the engine down.
I'm through with the heli and everything in it.

I haven't a clue what it could be.

HeliDirect Field Rep, Synergy N7 w/ OS 105, Torq Servos, Cyclone/ Rail blades

07-10-2016 09:27 AM
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gmcullan

Key Veteran

Southbridge, MA

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Sounds like you have something binding with your linkage. Make sure you don't have a mechanical issue before you start chasing g
the electronics.

Gerry Cullan,
Gaui 200, 255; T-Rex 250, 450 SE & SA, Mini-Titan, Blade 450

07-10-2016 01:37 PM
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PilotPin

Senior Heliman

Indiana -- USA

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If all the servo were OK before you changed to HH. I would say they started to over work them selfs when the tail started to shake from side to side. I would turn down dial 1 the cyclic gain and set Pam. D to a lower value. Then try again.

07-10-2016 07:27 PM
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honda411

Key Veteran

Surprise, AZ USA

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There is no binding anywhere. The cyclic and tail servos are all heating up.

I flew it in HH for the first half tank and then landed to check temps. I accidentally put it in rate mode and the tail drifted pretty good to the right. So I landed it and put in HH and then the tail when nuts. I'm assuming it's due to the heat build up. But don't know why.

HeliDirect Field Rep, Synergy N7 w/ OS 105, Torq Servos, Cyclone/ Rail blades

07-10-2016 07:39 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Did you try the things I suggested in the first reply in your first topic about this?

http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t808783p1/

Also you probably have different gain settings between rate and HH which is why you had a hard wag when switching to HH.
So landed and put into HH. Took off again into hover and the tail acted up and started whipping back and forth hard. Not the small gain wag either. The gain was not too high. I just flew it like this no problem.
Why did you continue flying it like that?? That's gonna put ALOT of strain on the tail servo!
The cyclic seemed mushy and the helicopter wanted to drift and started to tip over,
Again this is due to vibration. Rich running will cause this, something bent, out of balance, bad bearings, loose screws or blades not tracking.

60% of the time, it works every time!

07-11-2016 10:45 AM
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icanfly

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ontario

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is it too much to ask for a pic of the machine in question, of a description of the fbl units gains and other important settings?

Sure you've got the fbl unit fully tuned in "parameter mode" also?

Ahh, the "HD" version has a taller box, it will be more sensitive if not secured in a placement with the least amount of what I call swing or sway. Try to mount it as close to the main shaft as possible, otherwise a small amount of rotation becomes a huge workload to counter act as rotational distance increases the further the gyro's mounted from the helis cog, nitro making the heli work more to tune out it's resonant frequency also.

I ran into your problem though not as extreme, above suggestions were how it was fixed.

Is the BX HD made with an aluminum base?

07-11-2016 01:14 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Ahh, the "HD" version has a taller box, it will be more sensitive if not secured in a placement with the least amount of what I call swing or sway.
Exactly why I asked for the mounting tape used in his original topic. The thick white pad is no good for a nitro, he needs to use the thin grey pad.

60% of the time, it works every time!

07-11-2016 01:24 PM
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icanfly

Elite Veteran

ontario

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AND strapped down with a tie wrap insulated with nitro hose around the fbl unit (Milton mod it's called) or tightly pulled velcro. Apparently the bx doesn't like certain high frequency vibes, bx head office declining to mention which ones.

Nitro fuel and tape alone can spell a fbl unit falling off in flight, fuel/oil will seep into the tape and eventually soften the stickyness if motor vibes haven't shaken the fbl unit off first.

07-11-2016 01:37 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Not needed with the thin grey tape and vibrations can often be transferred through a strap. Wiring can't be too tight or loose aswell.

60% of the time, it works every time!

07-11-2016 01:44 PM
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icanfly

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ontario

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07-11-2016 02:03 PM
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honda411

Key Veteran

Surprise, AZ USA

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I'll post a pic but not sure of what since I pulled the unit off the 700 and will attempt it on the 500 to see if I have similar issues.
Richard, I used 2 layers of the grey 3m tape and a small Velcro strap.
The blades are balanced, no hang up or stiff linkages or anything. Everything is silky smooth. I entered the frequency and rates the servos call out for which is listed on the first post of this topic.

The engine is tuned in more and isn't super rich. In fact it's running perfect for break in. No crackle or excess oil from exhaust just a lot of smoke.

When I said "I just flew it like this" I meant when I just flew it prior to this issue there was no problems at all. The gain is set on the first light of the second row. I actually messed with the gov and the rpm of the rotor head was way higher than when I had these issues and it did not wag at all. When I say it shook back and forth, I'd say at least a good foot and half each way.

During the first half tank I thought I had the issues sorted out. It ran and felt great. It's when the servos started getting really hot is when the cyclic started to feel mushy and the tail went nuts.
I'm putting a spartan vortex on it since I have one sitting around and will try that instead.
Also this is not the HD version. It's the standard beastx plus.

HeliDirect Field Rep, Synergy N7 w/ OS 105, Torq Servos, Cyclone/ Rail blades

07-11-2016 05:14 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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If you put it back on your 700 try 1 layer of the grey 3m pad and no strap. The tail wag is suspicious if it's not gain related. A video of the wag will help a lot.

60% of the time, it works every time!

07-11-2016 05:21 PM
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honda411

Key Veteran

Surprise, AZ USA

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What causes all of my servos to be heating up to 174 and 200 degrees on the tail servo? It was setup correctly and double checked the settings.
It was like once the servos got so hot I started to lose control over it. Luckily only 2 feet hovering

HeliDirect Field Rep, Synergy N7 w/ OS 105, Torq Servos, Cyclone/ Rail blades

07-11-2016 07:44 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Vibration! Other reasons are binding, using too long servo arms, too high gain or higher voltage to the servos. Once the servos get hot they will slow down.

Also bare in mind your flying in 100 degree heat.

60% of the time, it works every time!

07-11-2016 07:49 PM
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honda411

Key Veteran

Surprise, AZ USA

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Okay. Bare with me since I just put it on the 500 and programmed it. Stay tuned and I'll give an update. Thank you guys!

HeliDirect Field Rep, Synergy N7 w/ OS 105, Torq Servos, Cyclone/ Rail blades

07-11-2016 07:52 PM
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icanfly

Elite Veteran

ontario

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not hd, that's not much different.

Placement? I've been stressing that one for awhile. The above link in my last reply describes not running certain servos at their optimum due to too high amperage draw which the bx cannot supply with just a 2s lipo, did you read the article?

07-12-2016 12:04 AM
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honda411

Key Veteran

Surprise, AZ USA

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Placement is on the top tray or small platform on radio box in the nose. Wire outlets facing forward. Setup menu A was double checked for this. Trex 700N.
I did read the article and glimpsed through the rest of the other stuff.

Do you think since these servos pull so much amperage that if the beastx can't supply it or it can't give the servo what it's asking for, the servos can heat up due to working too hard from low amperage?

I'm gonna try it in the 500 before I yank it back out because it's pretty much setup.
The parameter menus haven't really been changed. I maybe upped the control sensitivities one parameter. But nothing major.
If the align 515 servos heat up at their respected settings that will help me out also knowing what the problem "could be."
Vibrations were mentioned from Richard. I'm going to also put new head dampeners in and new grip bearings to eliminate one issue that could be there.
I did not notice or hear any vibrations at all and the tail fin was straight and not blurred. And like mentioned above the tail whipped hard. I've never seen a tail due this due to a gain issue. The tail rotor blades I swear went full deflection both ways during this whipping.
I'm not home till late tonight so I can't get the exact parameter settings just yet.

HeliDirect Field Rep, Synergy N7 w/ OS 105, Torq Servos, Cyclone/ Rail blades

07-12-2016 01:15 AM
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icanfly

Elite Veteran

ontario

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Richard recommended a power regulator using a 3s lipo, I tend to agree given the Savox is exactly the servo mentioned as a high amp servo to watch out for in problems like power supply. The fbl unit cannot sustain the hv amperage needed to operate the servos safely. the bx site says it clearly:
I intend to use the MICROBEAST PLUS on my 600/700 heli. Should I go with the HD version
Today's servos and especially so-called high voltage servos typically have a very high power consumption. When using Futaba BLS 451 servos for example these are very modest. Savöx 1258/Align DS610 are much more demanding, one alone taking up to 15Amps peak for the instance of a second. And for very extreme example take high voltage Savöx servos SB-2271SG HV. They demand up to 27Amps (1 Servo!) peak which you can see when measure the power consumption with an oscilloscope.

So besides using a good stable and high rated power supply you have to ensure proper supply of the servos with this power. But when only connecting one servo plug with power leads into the receiver this may insufficient and cause a "bottle neck" in power flow. Also when the current must take a long way through the receiver, the wiring and the MICROBEAST, this will produce high resistance due to the connections in between and additional loss of voltage. There is no benefit if the power supply/BEC itself can deliver 20-25A when this amount of current is not able to flow to the consumers.
I thought a regulator was common practice on all the big birds, apologies if we missed out on making that clear, surely this is the problem when running a separate rx, fbl unit and hv servos no matter what they are.

07-12-2016 01:18 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Do you think since these servos pull so much amperage that if the beastx can't supply it or it can't give the servo what it's asking for, the servos can heat up due to working too hard from low amperage?
If the power system can't handle the current demand from the servos the voltage will drop which would actually make the servos run cooler.

60% of the time, it works every time!

07-12-2016 01:28 PM
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icanfly

Elite Veteran

ontario

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resistance in electricity supply becomes heat in components due to load, be careful.

07-12-2016 01:32 PM
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