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ProModeler Scorpion Power
rcnut

Elite Veteran

Rockford, Illinois

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I made some programming changes...cyclic sensitivity, lowered the tail gain, increased the pro speed, and yes, Raja, I lowered the governor. Idle 1 is 1850 and idle 2 is 1950. Plus, I installed the Rail 716 blades.

The sun came out, time to fly!

Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!

07-05-2016 07:39 PM
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rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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*user waiting

For your field report!! Let me know how it flies at 1850 vs 1950. Also how it holds the head speed. Sometimes when you go too fast your motor becomes like a dremel tool, lots of rpms but no torque behind it, you just end up at 1850 from 1950 when you feed in load.

I'm going to get ready and head to the field myself also shortly, have some good flights I'll read the field report when I get back

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4038 flights
Raptor 90 Hanson 300, 267 flights
Spectra-G G270 3DMax, 3112 flights
Whiplash-G G270 3DMax, 1274 flights

07-05-2016 07:57 PM
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Carey Shurley

Elite Veteran

Orlando, FL - USA

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16oz fuel tank. You can pump in the fuel normally or just remove the cap and pour it in if you like, no fuel pump needed.

7.12 is the drive ratio, most of these 3D models (especially if they are DFC) perform the best around 2000 rpm and the engines can recover from loading faster with gearing in the 7.x-7.2x range. I've flown other models, particularly the Spectra-G with ratios as tall as 5.75:1 and as short as 8.18:1. The low 7's are a good fit for most of the current crop of high performance 23-30cc engines. The 320/340 is another story but at least as of now they still have some issues.

If you're not flying a gasoline helicopter
You're paying 10 times too much for fuel!!

07-05-2016 08:15 PM
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rcnut

Elite Veteran

Rockford, Illinois

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Wow, were do I start? I increased the cyclic and tail response, lowered the controller's cyclic expo, and decreased idle 1 & 2. I also took off the KDS blades and used a set of Rail 716.

Those Rail blades made all the difference! And now it autos like it should, smooth all the way to the ground. The cyclic was crisper and more responsive, but still could use a little more collective... The cyclic response wasn't quite what I was looking for. Yea it was a little bit faster, but not a lot like I thought it should be. It wasn't until I was home talking to Raja about my day flying, that I noticed the mainshaft is longer, taller!

The head sits taller. This means the swashplate has a lot further to travel to get the same results I was looking for initially...more "cyclic pop". Raja made the mention that I need to move the cyclic links out one more hole on the servo arm to gain back some mechanical advantage. In the Spartan Vortex controller, I'm at 90% agility and style. This heli should be flipping so fast, it would almost be scary!

So I will move the servo balls out one hole and then back the agility and style down to 80%. And I'll leave the collective alone and see how that feels.

I also, with the help of Raja, found out why it appears my tail gain is up so high...tail wag. It is the micro servo I am using. For some reason it is "hunting" or oscillating back and forth really fast. I had to take the canopy off in order to see it. So the servo feedback pot may be bad or something else. I have another servo I'll try.

I started tuning the motor some, and now I'm getting close to 15-1/2 minutes of flight time with a 16 oz. tank, 716 Rail blades, and at 1950 head speed. And I am not just flying around...some big air, fast forward flight, and fast 3D, or as fast as I'm able. The 1950 head speed seems to be agreeable with the 716 blades and TRM275tt motor. More playing and testing.

I am making the high and low needle adjustments slowly, allowing the motor to get used to my style of flying and paying attention to how it sounds.

So all-in-all, I am really enjoying this heli and with a few more adjustments, this might become my new goto heli...besides my N7!

Later, I'm going to try some different tail blades. The KDS tail blades work fine...but I think it can be a little better. I've noticed a slight sluggishness when performing piro-flips and some high speed hurricanes.

I'm also going to look into the process for removing the clutch stack without splitting the frame completely...aka belt change/washer adjustment for the pinion.

I put in 5 flights yesterday and ran out of fuel in my jug...I'm starting to sound like Raja! Oh crap! LoL! Just kidding Raja. Actually this is a good thing as I'm starting to burn more fuel than nitro.

I stopped at Wally World to pick up some more Colman's, but only to find "Camping Fuel" by "Crown" instead. I hope it is the same... Wally World was selling it for $7.64 a gallon, compared to Colman at $13.xx. Introductory price?

Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!

07-06-2016 05:04 PM
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jackp332

Key Veteran

Claremont, Nh USA

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I found the same thing at my local Walmart a few weeks ago- don't worry, it runs great!

07-06-2016 06:36 PM
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rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Hey!

Half the price just about for that new stuff. Coleman here is like $17, I posted a crazy picture of that price at Cabella's on HF.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4038 flights
Raptor 90 Hanson 300, 267 flights
Spectra-G G270 3DMax, 3112 flights
Whiplash-G G270 3DMax, 1274 flights

07-06-2016 06:47 PM
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fastflyer20

Key Veteran

N. Tonawanda, NY

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I have run around 5 gallons of the Crown purchased at Walmart, acts just like Coleman and probably is the same stuff!

Tom
CAUTION - my posts are based on my experiences, yours may be different.

07-06-2016 07:01 PM
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rcnut

Elite Veteran

Rockford, Illinois

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Ok, I'll give it a shot!

Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!

07-06-2016 07:18 PM
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rcnut

Elite Veteran

Rockford, Illinois

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After a few days of much needed rain, and overcast days, Mark and went out flying yesterday. I changed out the mini throttle servo with a regular size servo, and I moved the cyclic servo balls out one hole. And while I was at it, I checked the condition of the belt.

Throttle servo

As I had mentioned earlier, I has having problems with the throttle servo "hunting". It was very noticeable in idle 1 and smoothed out in idle 2 or while under collective loading. With the new regular size servo, the problem is now in the governor...isolating the problem. In the Spartan Vortex, there is a setting for governor gain. The default is 60%. the sensor is designed for a small magnet. The TRM275tt motor has a huge magnet compared to the small one. So I've dropped the sensitivity to 40% and it seems to be solving this problem, so I'll keep dropping this value until it is gone. More investigation.

Cyclic control feel

I personally like a fairly snappy heli. With the stock electric version Agile, it flew very well...And I wanted it the same or close to the same as a gasser! I had adjusted the "agility & style" settings in the Spartan Vortex to 90% which was a great feel and the Agile moved really well. However...I wanted a bit more without pushing it too far. The initial setup for the cyclic servo arms was 19mm (as an electric). I moved the servo balls out to 22mm and that gave me what I was looking for!!!

Now my Agile is really snappy, but not too much! Now I can back off on the "agility & style" settings in the controller. I'm enjoying this feel a lot. I do have a little expo for the center (12% in the controller and 4% in the radio) which works out perfect. I can add more or less in the radio as needed versus plugging the "Data Pod" into the controller to make these small adjustments.

The belt

I'll need to tighten the belt up some as it has loosened up some from being "broke-in". It is riding a little high on the pinion which means I'll need to move the washers around some.

The motor

I used up the last of the Colman fuel I had, which was over a year old...and I mixed up a fresh batch of "Crown" fuel. I didn't change the needle settings as I want to see if it made a difference. I put up 4 flights yesterday and each one was 16-1/2 minutes long at 1950 head speed performing a variety of maneuvers...a mixture of mild to wild 3D. So I will leave the needles there for a while and see how the motor performs and watch my fuel mileage. And once I get the throttle servo functioning better, I want to fly a full flight at 1850 head speed to see how long of a flight I can with it!

Mark was able to shoot a video of me flying my Agile, and said he would post it soon! He did a great job of filming me. I managed to loose him a couple of times! The flying that I was doing is pretty much how I was flying the entire tank, and the 4 flights.

I even let Mark have a flight on my Agile and he liked it a lot! He liked how fast I and reactive I have the tail setup...so I said I was setting up all his helis like that...like my helis!

I'll put together a review of how I built and setup my Agile.

Thanks Carey! This is an awesome conversion!

Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!

07-10-2016 02:05 PM
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rcnut

Elite Veteran

Rockford, Illinois

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Here's the video Mark posted for me...enjoy!

Watch at YouTube

Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!

07-10-2016 10:53 PM
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jackp332

Key Veteran

Claremont, Nh USA

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Man that's some good flying!

07-12-2016 01:56 AM
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RM3

Elite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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very good!

that field is beautiful too...

our local club field looks like a freaking sasquatch hunting lease...i fly at the 5 ac behind a school when i get the chance....

looks like the engine is doing great.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

07-12-2016 02:08 AM
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rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Can we get an auto?

I think Mark is saying "I'm tired...land"

Flew nice, good job with that conversion, can't wait to see it in person. Looks like the engine really likes to hold 1800 with those blades - about the auto, I didn't see alot of hang time at the bottom, but maybe just the way you did it, I'll try it at IRCHA and I can give you a better opinion then.

See you soon buddy! Tomorrow I'm off to Montreal to see Steff and the Canadian gang, Goblin girl Grace (GGG) included!

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4038 flights
Raptor 90 Hanson 300, 267 flights
Spectra-G G270 3DMax, 3112 flights
Whiplash-G G270 3DMax, 1274 flights

07-12-2016 05:25 AM
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rcnut

Elite Veteran

Rockford, Illinois

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Thanks guys!

I've worked hard (on my own and self taught) to get to this comfort zone, and I still have a long ways to go! But isn't this what the hobby is all about? Practice, practice, practice.

That field is part of the school we fly at. The local club [that I also belong to] doesn't like helis at all. The school board enjoys us flying there and allows us to have access any time we like...providing it doesn't interfere with school activities. Which is a couple times in the year. So it is a great place for us to fly!

Raj, the head speed is set to 1950, but with my style of flying, it's probably closer to 1800. I need to have someone tach the head speed for me. I did come in a little faster than normal, but you will find out soon enough!
Can we get an auto?
I think Mark is saying "I'm tired...land"
Yea, that is what he meant as well. His arms were getting tired of holding his tablet up that long!

Have a safe trip and say hi to Grace for me...tell her I said, "Ha, ha!" She will know what that means!!! See you in 17 days!

Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!

07-12-2016 01:34 PM
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tonyd12

Senior Heliman

hamlin,PA

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comparison

as you previously had a goblin gasser, what do you see are the differences other than cosmetic. Not everybody likes SAB and there are few other choices out there. What is the reason to go this route over goblins.

07-13-2016 05:37 PM
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rcnut

Elite Veteran

Rockford, Illinois

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Ok, I'll try to answer that with this analogy...

It's like the difference between driving a bus (or a station wagon) and a sport car. To me, I feel the Goblin is somewhat on the "stiff" side in flight, it doesn't flow right. Maybe it's due to a full body versus a pod and boom. Where as the Agile is a lot like every other pod and boom heli. I feel it moves easier and free(er).

I have two Goblin gassers. I borrowed the motor and muffler out of one of them, so now it is a backup incase I crash one. I like the way the Goblin flies, but I prefer the typical heli. And the crash cost of a Goblin versus the others is also a factor. With the Goblin, there's a lot of mass to move as a heavy gasser. The HPI head needs constant adjustments (adding shims to the feathering shaft) as it loosens up under heavy cyclic demands. I like a snappy, quick moving heli (like fast 3D), and this takes a toll on the dampners. People (some pilots) tell me the Goblin gas heli doesn't fly well doing 3D, until they see mine fly, or the way I fly it! I'm not a 3D pro by any means, but I'm learning how to and I can make my Gobby "dance" fairly well! Enough to impress some of the naysayers.

I flew the Agile as an electric heli first and enjoyed the crisp cyclic response. Although I'm not a fan of electrics, I wanted to try my hand at a 90 size electric heli. My first 90 size electric heli was the Whiplash. I enjoyed it immensely, until MA and then Heliproz went out of business. So I bought the Agile and had a blast with it, but wasn't liking the fast 5 minute, or less, flight times, and the long wait to charge LiPo's.

It wasn't until Joey and Carey mentioned a possible gas version of the Agile that intrigued me to no end...I had to have one! If my Agile gasser flew almost as well as its electric version...I am hooked! And as it would be, and after a little adjusting, it flies better than what I thought it might! It is a bit slower due to lugging 14 pounds around, but it is a lot of fun to fly!

As far as mods and upgrades...I added RCbooya to the front of the canopy for easier removal and installing of the canopy, but that was done when it was the electric version. I upgrades to the wide belt and pulley because of the conversion kit comes that way. In the original version, people were having issues with the smaller belt stripping and in some cases breaking, but mainly stripping the teeth off of the belt. My Agile never did this after the 50 flight mark.

As far as the differences between the two? I find the Agile turns easier (piros) in forward flight compared to the fuselage style tail and full front canopy on the Goblin. The Agile flows better, more like a pod and boom style heli. It flips and rolls better. It definitely autos better, less mass for airflow to get around. The tail sits higher off the ground, so when landing, you are not worried about breaking the tail fin off! It seems bigger in the air... And the super long flight times! 16 minute flights! The Goblin gasser has a 14 ounce fuel tank and I get 8-10 minutes of flight time...with the same size blades and the same head speed.

I hope this helped answer your question...

Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!

07-14-2016 01:55 PM
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rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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^^^ Yes sir Indeed!

It certainly was my choice over the Goblin, too bad it didn't come out first I would have had one already...

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4038 flights
Raptor 90 Hanson 300, 267 flights
Spectra-G G270 3DMax, 3112 flights
Whiplash-G G270 3DMax, 1274 flights

07-14-2016 03:05 PM
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tonyd12

Senior Heliman

hamlin,PA

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comparrison (?)

thanks. Just wondering if I should switch. I guess it all depends on price. Maybe we will meet at IRCA, and I can see it.

07-14-2016 04:44 PM
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rcnut

Elite Veteran

Rockford, Illinois

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Carey has a "Gas Powered Thoughts" seminar on Friday (I think it's at 4:00 PM), and I will be there with my Agile gasser!

Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!

07-14-2016 06:15 PM
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rcnut

Elite Veteran

Rockford, Illinois

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Here's a post from Carey;
Events - 2016 Gas Powered Thoughts - "The Live Version"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

its that time of year already...........time for the IRCHA Jamboree!

For the 6th year in a row, we'll get together for a seminar and talk only about gas helicopters! Bring your questions or experiences to share with fellow gas helicopter pilots!

Friday August 5th at 4PM in the main Seminar tent

Should have some stuff to look at:
Raymond Feurer Jr - is gonna bring the JCD/Leviathan Agile 7.2 conversion
Doug Darby will probably have JCD/Leviathan Goblin 700 and 570 conversons
and we'll talk about the 570 Nitro, TSA, and others

Once again we've got some great sponsors and we'll be awarding some very nice stuff including custom GPT/GPH Tshirts and Koozies

Our Sponsors: (keep an eye for more information)
Century Helicopters - HWC Trex 600 Gas Conversion Kit/custom caps
Scorpion Power Systems - Scorpion tools and sets
TRM Power - TRM 300 Sports Edition Engine
Gas Powered Helicopters - TRM Power Pipe

When you're spending your money, remember these folks. They are supporting YOUR part of the hobby!
__________________
Carey Shurley

Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!

07-15-2016 07:55 PM
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