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jackp332

Key Veteran

Claremont, Nh USA

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I recently attended a funfly with my scale gasser and left feeling like I wanted something a bit more modern, agile, FBL, etc... My Raptor 90 Helibug in the scale fuselage flys wonderful but I would really like another that I can treat a little more rough and look cool while doing it. I should also say that I really like the Whiplash and have always thought about stepping up to one of those. However, I have a Raptor 90 Nitro I currently fly that I could do another Helibug conversion on. It is also flybar like my current Raptor gasser unfortunately. I was also thinking I could try the OS gt15hz in it to save some money over the conversion. I have all the electronics I will need but no power plant as of yet so my options are pretty wide open at this point. I know I'm all over the place on this but any opinions and input would be much appreciated.

06-27-2016 08:23 PM
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fastflyer20

Key Veteran

N. Tonawanda, NY

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The GT15 can't handle the load of a 700, it is better suited to the 570.

I have owned a number of different brands of gassers. The Leviathan Goblin runs away with it for me. Least maintenance and best flight characteristics in sport or 3D flying at low, medium or high head speeds.

If MA fixes the Whiplash issues in the new version, then it could be a contender.

The drivetrain on the HB are dated. A Zenoah clutch has become the benchmark now.

Tom
CAUTION - my posts are based on my experiences, yours may be different.

06-27-2016 08:29 PM
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don s

Key Veteran

Chesapeake, VA

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You can't be rough with a GT15HZ.

E820, Raptor G4N, X50F/E, E620, Forza 450, and some planks.

06-27-2016 08:30 PM
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rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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About the Whiplash

FWIW:

I got a new CNC main gear and one way bearing with special oil from MA about a year ago, and, so far so good with the original design one way bearing its holding up great, I installed it on 6/11/2015 at 953 flights, now just around 54 weeks later I'm at flight 1166 I've broken through 200 flights with it.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4038 flights
Raptor 90 Hanson 300, 267 flights
Spectra-G G270 3DMax, 3110 flights
Whiplash-G G270 3DMax, 1272 flights

06-27-2016 09:04 PM
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madgadget

Senior Heliman

St Louis MO

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there's a guy that whispers to those 15g*z's and specifies the rpm range as well. So far only my octane has had the treatment. But a 700 min air os gasser is on the horizon. Only a 6s flux has more top end than my octane.
mho

06-28-2016 01:19 AM
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RM3

Elite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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You can't be rough with a GT15HZ.
maybe in a 500.. but no way in anything bigger than a 550...I would also wait on testing of a new head that Carey got in for the 15 (WAR head?)...should help with the overheating issues... not sure 100% they have the durability issue fixed either. HF seems to have two camps on the 15, some say they are working OK, others grenade them in short order.

for me its a 50/50 problem not worth the expense considering the high price for a OS 15...

IMHO its doesnt have the torque to handle 600mm mains with any authority that you would consider "rough" by what I have read about and seen in any videos...
But a 700 min air os gasser is on the horizon
dont hold your breath on that one...there is no money in it given the current market trend. TSA killed their gasser idea and promised it for 4 years straight and quietly killed theirs, Airstar disappeared, Bergen dont sell hobby grade anymore, MA is still on life support AFAIC, Gaui showed promise but did the smart thing and kept away, Align never even considered it for good reason...the remaining gasser brands are having a hard time staying profitable while adhering to high quality to keep customers happy...

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

06-28-2016 05:47 AM
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jackp332

Key Veteran

Claremont, Nh USA

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I like the Helibug conversion and could go with another zenoah for reliability and power, but at $470 (on sale currently) for the cost of the kit and the 'necessary parts to complete' it's a tough pill to swallow.

06-28-2016 08:44 AM
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rcnut

Elite Veteran

Rockford, Illinois

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Jack,

I getting ready to convert my Agile 7.2 to gas, as soon as Carey has a kit ready. Carey mentioned the possibility of buying a short kit so the conversion and short kit would be around $1050.00. Couple that with a motor...$1500.00'ish.

Yea, it kind of sucks no one (manufacture) wanting to make a gasser kit. That's a good way of killing off a line! Imagine if they did that with nitro's... So if conversions are the way to go, then I'll do conversions! The Goblin is a great heli, as fastflyer20 said. Hardly any maintenance needed, just fuel and keep the LiPo charged. It 3D's well, but not as well as the electric version. For me, I'm looking for a pod-&-boom heli I can beat on!

I'll keep you posted on the conversion!

Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!

06-28-2016 11:23 AM
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jackp332

Key Veteran

Claremont, Nh USA

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When you talk those kinds of numbers, the Helibug doesn't sound so bad as I already have the Raptor airframe. I'm just not crazy about doing another dated raptor gasser with its mechanical mixing and flybar head although it does fly beautifully.

06-28-2016 01:58 PM
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RM3

Elite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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I guess the Goblin would be the best choice then for you...its far from dated and parts support is high among those online Heli stores that have significant heli presence.

Leviathan has a good deal on ready to go kits (no donor needed) if I recall.

For me, parts support and quality are priority...and Goblin has those both right now by what I see.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

06-28-2016 02:39 PM
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jackp332

Key Veteran

Claremont, Nh USA

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Thanks for that- I just looked it up. Very nice but unfortunately it would be out of my budget at this time. I think, being realistic about what I can spend, I am looking at either converting my Raptor or sourcing a used airframe either gasser specific or something already converted. I'm sorry I should have stated budget concerns in my first post. That is also the reason I was contemplating the OS gt15hz.

06-28-2016 03:07 PM
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jharkin

Senior Heliman

Holliston, MA - USA

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But a 700 min air os gasser is on the horizon
dont hold your breath on that one...there is no money in it given the current market trend.
What the new owners had told us is that they are redesigning the drivetrain of the existing Whiplash. My guess is that some point a conversion kit will come out that swaps the drivetrain in existing airframes and moves the OWB to the mainshaft with a traditional autorotation gear.

However as far as we know it will remain Zenoah based, not OS. No matter how many hop ups you do to that GT15 its never going to be able to overcome the 50% displacement disadvantage against a 30cc modified Zenoah.
I am looking at either converting my Raptor or sourcing a used airframe either gasser specific or something already converted
Nether is a bad idea. I have never been a huge fan of Helibug but I have flown Rajas Helibug Raptor and its a nice smooth flying heli, really nice power with the 300 motor. You can convert it to FBL with the mechanical mix.

Another cheap option is pickup a cheap used old Trex 700 Nitro Pro and convert it with a Helibug or (my pref) HelixHeli conversion kit. I love my HelixHeli.. There are some gotchas in the buildup to watch for, but it flies well once dialed in - I have a build thread on the other site I can share over PM if you decide to go that route.

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

06-29-2016 02:19 PM
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jackp332

Key Veteran

Claremont, Nh USA

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Just curious- does anyone know if you can run the OS gt15hz @ 32.1 like I do my zenoahs? I see on Tower it says 25.1. Having to carry a second jug with a different premix, and electric starter are things that I'm not crazy about should I go that route as all my gassers both heli and planes use the same fuel jug and mix.

06-29-2016 06:42 PM
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rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Don't go that route

There is a high chance you will get frustrated than pleased. I thought I read somewhere that some folks were running this at 10:1, though I'm not sure someone with experience can comment about that.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4038 flights
Raptor 90 Hanson 300, 267 flights
Spectra-G G270 3DMax, 3110 flights
Whiplash-G G270 3DMax, 1272 flights

06-29-2016 07:21 PM
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don s

Key Veteran

Chesapeake, VA

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"Smaller gasser displacements require greater oil ratios, 10:1, 15:1, etc"

-kinda something I read somewhere I can't remember

E820, Raptor G4N, X50F/E, E620, Forza 450, and some planks.

06-29-2016 08:11 PM
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Carey Shurley

Elite Veteran

Orlando, FL - USA

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does anyone know if you can run the OS gt15hz @ 32.1 like I do my zenoahs?
you can..........but not for long

the connecting rod has a bearing on the bottom end but the top uses a bushing. You need much more oil to keep it alive

If you're not flying a gasoline helicopter
You're paying 10 times too much for fuel!!

06-29-2016 09:36 PM
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RM3

Elite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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too bad they dont just use a crowded roller bearing arrangement on both ends instead of a caged unit...costly, but at least it might better tolerate the high inertial pounding that tiny engine produces at the crank ends thanks to the high rpms...

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

06-29-2016 10:16 PM
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jharkin

Senior Heliman

Holliston, MA - USA

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"Smaller gasser displacements require greater oil ratios, 10:1, 15:1, etc"
Its not directly the size that dictates the ratio. Carey nailed it above - its designs that use plain bearings rather than roller or needle (on the rod or the crank), and/or have marginal cooling that need more oil.

You tend to see this in the smallest gassers simply because those were often adapted from glow designs.

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

06-30-2016 12:47 AM
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dschertz

Senior Heliman

Jackson, MI

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Personally, I would stay away from the OS GT15HZ. I am by no means an expert, but I ruined two of them in a Freya doing basic flying. No 3D or anything, maybe a stall turn and a few piros while flying upright and at a 1500rpm head speed. My next gasser option would be the Goblin. I was going to get one, but went in another direction with my hobbies.

06-30-2016 11:08 AM
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jharkin

Senior Heliman

Holliston, MA - USA

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Personally, I would stay away from the OS GT15HZ.
You are not alone... the gas room on the "other site" is full of similar horror stories. Carey and another user named Sowa had done lots of testing and came up with those spiral retainers to try and keep the rod together and some other fixes...but it seems that they where still grenading.

Carey can correct me but it seemed that the best way to keep one alive if you really want one is to:

Run it in a heli 570 size or less.
Keep the engine RPM under 14k.
Use a lot of oil and tune it slightly rich.

Too much hassle for me I stick with Zenoah (which dont cost any more anyway

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

06-30-2016 02:06 PM
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