RunRyder RC
 2  Topic Subscribe
WATCH  1 page 846 views POST REPLY
AlignRC Thunder Power RC
MPA

Elite Veteran

Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A machine I did a heap of repairs on a while back.

Got a pile of video covering repairs and flaws in it to upload but this is the thing in action.

Watch at YouTube

06-25-2016 03:39 PM
PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR
DougsRC

rrProfessor

Mass.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

That's a serious machine ! seems pretty quiet compared to most "Stump grinders"

07-06-2016 11:21 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
MPA

Elite Veteran

Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

It is fairly quiet.
Probably directs a lot of noise via the weight of the machine.
Its a heavy machine and you can feel it in the ground near it.

I did a few videos on it, its got a few issues and had to work on it a few times to cover them all.
Mostly in the wiring harness.

If uses rigid resistors and diodes in the harness to take voltages for the CANBUS computer.
Problem is they break and are deep inside the harness.
The thing goes haywire.

07-15-2016 01:41 AM
PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR
DougsRC

rrProfessor

Mass.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

CANBUS computer
When I first read that I thought it said canibus
The thing goes haywire.
Whoa ! That's not the kind of machine you want to haywire Things could get messy

07-15-2016 11:42 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
TruckRacer

Heliman

Des Moines, Iowa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Probably built right here in Pella Iowa, USA. I know several people who work there. I should give them crap about the crummy wiring harness but more than likely it came from an outside vendor. Few companies make that sort of thing in house.

07-15-2016 05:00 PM
PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
MPA

Elite Veteran

Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I saw a lot of electrical issues on the net with Vermeer stuff.
If this harness is anything to go by they need to do something about it because their machines are getting a bad rap over electrical faults.

They need to provide in line enclosures with PCB for those components and plugs each side for the harness so they are totally separated from it mechanically and wont break the component leads.

There is the alternator harness.

Be really easy to buy a new alternator and fit it only to find out it was a broken resistor or diode on the harness.

Watch at YouTube

More of a worry was the control harness.
When the resistors break it causes one of the track direction switches to be reversed.

Not fail safe to make it work the right way or not at all

Imagine you are inching the thing forward and the resistors fails you are pressing both rockers to go forward straight and suddenly one track goes the opposite way the machine will do a sudden left or right yaw.
Like loosing a tail rotor on a hell.

Could end up swinging the teeth into a rock bed nearby and just bits of rock flying everywhere terrible.

So my fix was to double the resistors in parallel to double the number of conductors then fill that part of the harness with Sika Flex

Watch at YouTube

And then there is the cabinet full of gaps so the computer, fuses and relays get hosed by rain.

The radio link box solid mounted gets vibrated to death, this was the second one so I mounted it in foam to isolate it and that worked and it stopped disconnecting al the time.

Watch at YouTube

Noting that when it fails they have to use the manual controls and stand right in front of the console on it that is swing out to the side, using controls that can reverse direction suddenly.

All that done it still had other issues causing shut downs and that came down to CANBUS codes.
The codes have 2 levels, one is the system code to tell you where the fault is and the other is the condition code to tell you the out of range value it logged.

Problem is the computer only displays the first level code.
Worse is I call the local Agent who refuses to give me codes values for even the displayed code.
Starts telling me how this owner owes them money and wont provide any service info to me.

My reply was the only reason I'm fixing it is because he obviously didn't fix it, and he's a Vermeer dealer and I've never worked on a machine like this in my life and I fixed it and got paid and he didn't fix it so I guess that's why he didn't pay him.

So some searching I found some Cummins CANBUS codes for a bus that uses non proprietary codes so they are standardised, doubt Vermeer could afford to write in house CANBUS codes so these ones should apply.

So the code 2 it was spitting out was listed as throttle actuator which made sense because the shut down was a throttle down condition not engine cut out.

If I had the higher level CANBUS code I could have used a CANBUS patch to read it and find out the range value off the actuator to see if it goes open circuit, indicating intermittent harness breakage.

The thing with the resistors in the harness is if they break they are rigid enough to stay connected with very low amps over them and disconnect only under movement or vibration in the harness.

The machine will rattle your teeth if if you hang on to it so it runs in a world of vibration.

So at that point I said to the owner there is a chance the fault is in the throttle actuator itself, but with the condition code I cant tell if it loss of signal from the computer or out of range only a bit which would be more like high resistance fail in the actuator itself.

Or its the harness and there are more components in it not found yet.
Since Vermeer wont give me the schematic of the harness I cant narrow down the location of them and split it to fix them so Ill need to strip down the whole engine harness and redo it to find components and the cover on the harness is like a bitumen filled cloth that is hard to get into to trace.
Quoted 2k to look at it and it'll cost how ever much it does, he hasn't taken that up and I'm happy to not have to work on it anymore without service info because I cant be working on it forever.

If I had code tables and schematic from Vermeer and CANBUS reader lead it be a pretty quick job otherwise and I could isolate it being the actuator itself and make sure the code is the actuator as well before harness mining

The whole reason they have components like that in the harness is because the CANBUS computer they use from another machine that has full CANBUS inputs and outputs.
Where the Vermeer machines don't they have to use resistors like this to fake the voltages required to send the right inputs to the computer.

So their solution was to put all those bits inside the harness not fit them at the switch ends like on the alternator not in the harness or piggy back on the control switches not in the harness.
IMO it was a huge mistake and they need to stop putting anything other than multi strand wires in harnesses.

Thing is the wires in the harness all have a very high strand count and covering so are ideal for the machine, just let down badly by shoving single strand components in them that all belong on a PCB.
And aside from the wobbly cabinet and the harness the rest of it works well and it eats stumps by the dozen.

All the more reason to make the electrics less fault prone and it only needs a few mods to get components out of it and on to inline PCBs.

07-20-2016 09:26 AM
PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR
DougsRC

rrProfessor

Mass.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Holy Smokes MPA, you seriously know your sheet.

07-20-2016 10:35 AM
PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
MPA

Elite Veteran

Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thanks
Ive been a qualified mechanic 1976 to 2005, had some curly ones before but this one took a while to figure out.

07-21-2016 03:47 PM
PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR
WATCH  1 page 846 views POST REPLY
ProModeler Scorpion Power
 Print TOPIC Advertisers 

 2  Topic Subscribe

Saturday, December 10 - 8:51 am - Copyright © 2000-2016 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies