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ProModeler Scorpion Power
honda411

Key Veteran

Surprise, AZ USA

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So on one of my Trex 700 nitros I was flying breaking in the engine today out front of the house. The tail had a slight shake but I figured it's due to the super rich crackling mixture for break in.
Well I set it down and go to retune and went to spool up. Well it just kept doing circles. So I shut it down and tail servo doesn't work now. I touched it and holy smokes it was super hot. The cyclic servos were getting pretty hot also. I guess I could say I had some luck on my side on this one to set it down at the right time.

So I'm using a pulse 2s 2550mah, microbeast plus, Futaba rx, jr 8917hv cyclic servos, and an rjx fs0521T tail servo. All mechanics are free and clear. Running direct 2s lips to the electronics also.
Not sure what's causing this. The beastx is setup for the servo frequencies and pulse lengths just fine.

HeliDirect Field Rep, Synergy N7 w/ OS 105, Torq Servos, Cyclone/ Rail blades

06-24-2016 06:40 AM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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You kind of answered your own question there, it is the rich running engine causing high frequency vibrations getting to the BeastX. The engine doesn't need to be run THAT rich for break in, you can start slowly tuning the engine in on the first tank providing you do short hovers and frequently stop the engine to allow it to cool.

Which tape have you used to mount the BeastX? I recommend the thin grey tape supplied NOT the thick white tape.

Also try turning your gains down as far as is flyable and reduce the servo frequency to maybe 165Hz for the tail and 120Hz for cyclic in the BeastX. Just till you have the vibes sorted.

It may also be out of balance tail blades, bent tail shaft or bent torque tube causing the vibes.

60% of the time, it works every time!

06-24-2016 11:00 AM
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PaulBowen

Veteran

Victoria, Australia.

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Beastx Beastx Beastx

Cynical I know but I have had nothing but frustration with them.

VBar and JR Tags01 and Tags Mini are superb.

I'm a Hirobo, JR, flybar, nitro and all things helicopter fanatic!

06-24-2016 11:37 AM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Not very helpful.

60% of the time, it works every time!

06-24-2016 11:53 AM
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PaulBowen

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Victoria, Australia.

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No sorry it wasn't helpfull at all.

I have had massive issues with a BeastX HD on both nitro and electric producing massive current draw. I have no useful answer. I feel your pain.

I'm a Hirobo, JR, flybar, nitro and all things helicopter fanatic!

06-24-2016 11:57 AM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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I've never used the HD version so can't comment on that but I think the OP's issue is different to what you have experienced.

I don't see why the BeastX HD unit would draw too much current on it's own, it has to be the servos drawing the current.

60% of the time, it works every time!

06-24-2016 01:07 PM
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PaulBowen

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Victoria, Australia.

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My problems vanished with a VBar so I guess I will never know.

I'm a Hirobo, JR, flybar, nitro and all things helicopter fanatic!

06-24-2016 01:16 PM
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rcflyerheli

Key Veteran

Granbury, TX USA

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I'm not going to be able to add much here, but I do have a couple questions.

First I have to fess up that I am total electric, no nitro involved in this area of the hobby. What I am wondering is if nitro heli engines are all ringed, or they of the ABC type? All my nitro experience is with the ABC engines that we ran (and still run) on planks.

Thanks for the info.

Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
Amain Team Rep

06-24-2016 03:54 PM
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gbeeu

Heliman

BC Canada

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I had a similar problem using a V-Bar and a 2S Lipo using the same servos. Fortunately for me it was during the setup. I would suggest you go to a 3S Lipo and a voltage regulator.

Logo 600 SX, Logo 600 SXv2, Titan 50SE Astar

06-24-2016 03:55 PM
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coolice

Key Veteran

Northamptonshire, England

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I don't see why the BeastX HD unit would draw too much current on it's own, it has to be the servos drawing the current
Hey buddy.

No, quite the opposite. You'll find it will be the FBL unit which is drawing the most current when it cannot filter out the good signals from the bad (vibration) ones.
Bear in mind it is the FBL unit commanding the servos to move. Granted some servos are less power hungry than others, but the major factor is the FBL unit.
By comparison the Vbar, with its great many years of maturity, is a much more conservative unit when it comes to power usage.

Back on topic, is the tail parameters on the Beast setup correct to suit the servo regarding the centre pulse? This can cause the servo to get very hot quickly. So to can too high a gain.
The beastx is quite tolerant to vibes usually.

Ian

Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
Midland Helicopters

06-24-2016 04:07 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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No, quite the opposite. You'll find it will be the FBL unit which is drawing the most current when it cannot filter out the good signals from the bad (vibration) ones.
I was referring to paulbowens issue not the OP's. My statement was correct, it IS the servos that draw the current, yes it is drawn through the FBL unit but the drain comes from the servos.

If a heli has vibration issues it is not the fault of the FBL unit.

60% of the time, it works every time!

06-24-2016 05:15 PM
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coolice

Key Veteran

Northamptonshire, England

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I was referring to paulbowens issue not the OP's. My statement was correct, it IS the servos that draw the current, yes it is drawn through the FBL unit but the drain comes from the servos.
If a heli has vibration issues it is not the fault of the FBL unit.
Hey.

The servos will pull their required power to operate yes, but you're missing the fact that it is the FBL unit driving the servos more than required which is in turn pulling much more current from the system than is actually required.
This is caused by the FBL units inability to filter out the actual models fuselage movements, the ones it needs to act and account for, from the ones it senses from vibrations.
Thus the current draw is greater due to the vibrations making the FBL unit input commands to the servos unnecessarily.

I have photos of near identical machines, servos the same etc just one flying with a Vbar and another with the Gpro (a well known power hungry FBL unit), with vastly different peak amp readings.

Pop a different FBl unit in Pauls model with the same setup and you will notice a drop in amp draw, as he has stated.

Ian

Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
Midland Helicopters

06-24-2016 06:15 PM
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Jeff polisena

Elite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

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This might help in future , run motor rich but not so rich to run Inconsistent . Motors today have better tolerances than in the past .
Also if you don't track tail in rate mode the servo will always work hard and fail from heat resistance .

As far as fbl unit change still look for cause of vibrations , different units control vibes different . You might not see an issue in flight but servo still under stress to correct .

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

06-24-2016 06:16 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Also if you don't track tail in rate mode the servo will always work hard and fail from heat resistance .
Not true, the tail servo doesn't care about this. The tail servo will simply be in a different neutral position when switching between hh and rate simply causing a piro in rate mode.

The issue here is vibration. No 2 gyros are mounted the same, different tape, different location, servo wires tight or loose etc. In a nitro I know for a fact that the thin grey pad that comes with the BeastX works very well.

60% of the time, it works every time!

06-24-2016 07:23 PM
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Jeff polisena

Elite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

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Agreed to disagree ;-) there was a discussion about this years ago as well as a video .incorrect tail set up will heat servo by creating unnecessary work .
Track the tail correctly and helicopter will perform better no matter what Gyro system you are using.
I'm not saying that vibrations are not the issue but correct set up will help you narrow it down.

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

06-24-2016 07:48 PM
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Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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What about the gyros that only had HH mode?! The servo simply moves to where it needs to be to stop rotation in hh mode, there is no strain anywhere providing there is no binding.

60% of the time, it works every time!

06-24-2016 08:29 PM
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Jeff polisena

Elite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

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You set up with 90 deg per manual of Heli . Manual will explain How to set slider and servo arm and ball placement . This is a close but not perfect setup . Also I cant remember any gyro that does not have a rate mode .When I started flying some of the older guys never used HH just like when fbl systems came out people didn't change over easy .

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

06-24-2016 08:46 PM
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Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Tail servo is under less work and load when it's not correcting for ongoing mechanical trim error in addition to torque shift.

FBL gyros can overdrive servos even on a smooth model as we found with early generation CGY750 firmware. The latest version barely makes the servos warm. I would nonetheless look for hidden vibration. The low frequency stuff from a burbly rich engine usually does not get servos especially hot. At least it never did on my nitro models.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

06-24-2016 09:28 PM
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honda411

Key Veteran

Surprise, AZ USA

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So I am using two layers of the grey 3m tape. Always used this and worked pretty well on my nitros.
The servo seems stiffer than normal now so I'm assuming it's in the electrical motor or something in the servo. The gears don't seem chopped up. Haven't had time to pull it apart fully yet.
I'm guessing it's vibration induced. Right before this happened I could see the small metal bell crank in the frame from behind moving a bit back and forth constantly. Hoping it wasn't just a reflection making it look like it was moving.

The torque tube has some slop. I can move the tail rotor almost 2 hours before the front tt bevel gear will start turning. That's a lot of slop imo. Never realized this until just checking it.

Thank you all for the help so far. Time for a new or different servo also.
I may switch to the older version beastx unit. Never ever had a problem with them. I don't have the HD version. It's the PLUS.

And the switch glow I have I cant put on channel 5 using sbus because the PLUS version is different. The older bx I could.

HeliDirect Field Rep, Synergy N7 w/ OS 105, Torq Servos, Cyclone/ Rail blades

06-25-2016 12:44 AM
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Jeff polisena

Elite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

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Switch glo can y into throttle Chanel to work , just an option .
Torque tube is sloppy so might be able to push boom in to tighten gears or replace .

Try to find cause of vibes , adding tape or other options will bite you later .

Bearings on TT can cause vibes , they could be bad or placement causing frequency Vibes . Sometimes bearings being equal distances as per manual can cause vibes . I measure equal distance and then slide offset to disturb frequency so to say .

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

06-25-2016 01:37 AM
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