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ProModeler Scorpion Power
mikenike

Heliman

Ga.

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What is the difference between these two batteries. I have HV servos but like to run them on lower voltage than 7.4v. So what are the advantages between the Li-Fe and A123

06-21-2016 04:25 PM
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Four Stroker

Elite Veteran

Atlanta

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LiFe looks like a pop tart. A123 comes in a can. The chemistry is the same but the A123 has some kind of nano-structure with vastly more surface area on each plate. I don't like pop tarts. Not to be confused with other kinds of tarts.

HK claims to have genuine A123 with solder tabs at a low price ?

06-21-2016 07:25 PM
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BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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A123's are LiFe

LiFe aren't necessarily A123's.

A123 is a patented nano technology battery produced by A123 systems, if the capacity isn't 1100, 2200 or 2500 chances are it's not an A123 Systems cell, which in my experience (especially in giant scale gas) the A123's hold up a lot better.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

06-22-2016 07:36 PM
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don s

Key Veteran

Chesapeake, VA

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I've had zero problems with LiFe packs.

E820, Raptor G4N, X50F/E, E620, Forza 450, and some planks.

06-22-2016 07:55 PM
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Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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The 1100mAh A123 cylindrical cells have been discontinued in recent years. A123 did/does make the pop tart (prismatic) format, but only in larger capacities for commercial applications.

  

06-22-2016 09:40 PM
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Four Stroker

Elite Veteran

Atlanta

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Electric cars or solar ?

06-23-2016 01:51 AM
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Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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Don't know who if anyone is using them these days.

  

06-23-2016 02:06 AM
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jharkin

Senior Heliman

Holliston, MA - USA

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I use A123s extensively in my planes and in my Gas Helis

My glow planes all have A123 1100 packs.
My gas planes have A123 2500s on the RX and 1100s on the ignition.
My 2 gas helis have A123 1100s backed up with jewel generators.

I love them... They can handle much more abuse and last a lot longer than the generic LiFe.

The original A123 systems made 2300mAh M1A (not 2200) 26650 size cells and 1100mAh 18650 size cells. Originally they where sold in power tools (1100s where used in Black and Decker VPX, 2300s used by DeWalt). They later started a hobby division making packs for RC cars out of the 2300s and vendors on the hobby market would get cells and make up packs.

They also had an auto division that made those large capacity prismatic cells for electric cars.

A123 went bankrupt a few years ago. They did not go away, just sold off the auto division to Johnson Controls and the power tool cell division to a Chinese battery company.

The 2300 Cells where updated to an M1B version of 2500mAh - that is still available now. The 1100s where discontinued for about a year and a half but appear to have come back on the market this year and you can again get new cells.

As has been mentioned they are still very popular in the giant scale gas and turbine plane crowd (that where i got into them). You can buy new production true A123 RC packs in various configurations of 2500 and 1100 from:

NOBS / Hangtimes Hobbies
Fromeco
Radical RC
Duralite
Electro-Dynamics
Buddy RC
and others...

Through these vendors I have seen both 1100 and 2500 RX packs, 2500 3 cell turbine ECU packs, transmitter packs, etc.

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

06-26-2016 05:33 PM
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GREYEAGLE

Elite Veteran

Flat Land's

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So much for the Kudo's on GREAT NESS :

What are the Charging Requirements - Mah Output and Actual Discharge Curves and Current Retention over time ?

Standard chargers ??

Volt's mean's nothing : What's Current out put on a typical four cell pack or indiviual cell out put / voltage . Top and bottom cutt- off : V1

Who's got the spec's.

What the price comparison and how can you tell if they go sour ?

They drop out ???
LOT of questions : Tried the NiMH : That was BAD !!!

greyeagle

06-27-2016 01:31 AM
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lfalsetto

Key Veteran

COLORADO

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How about charging? What do you use?

06-27-2016 02:00 AM
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Four Stroker

Elite Veteran

Atlanta

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Go out to Hangtimes Hobbies and read all about them. I have dumped NiCD and NiMH and gone all A123. jharkin ain't lying. You need a 2S pack of 6.6 volts and a LiFe balance charger.

06-27-2016 02:01 AM
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jharkin

Senior Heliman

Holliston, MA - USA

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Who's got the spec's.
A little google searching will turn oup lots of tasty info

Whitepapers from A123:
http://www.a123systems.com/Collater...ata%20Sheet.pdf

FMA Direct in depth analysis and testing:
http://www.revolectrix.com/support_docs/item_1229.pdf
(this has the most relevant info for us)

NASA evaluations of A123 for space program applications:
https://batteryworkshop.msfc.nasa.g...ppl_DCarmen.pdf

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/c...20070032058.pdf

https://batteryworkshop.msfc.nasa.g...Batt_MWixom.pdf

http://www.2a3a.ru/wp-content/uploa..._Safe_18650.pdf

As far as charging, any charger with a LiFe compatible mode will do. I use FMA chargers (a cellpro4 and a PL6) and I made a custom wiring adapter to use the signal lead of the servo plug as the balance tap. NoBs and other vendors will sell you packs prewired this way - just made sure that if you use a chargeswitch that you cut off the signal lead on the RX side.

I use the JR gold HD charge jack switches and usually get my 2500s wired with 2 leads and use 2 switches for redundancy and better current capacity.

If you charge though the servo lead make sure to limit your charge rate to 3 amps (this is the max spec of a servo plug). If you charge through deans or other larger format plug you can charge the 1100s up to 4 amps and the 2500s up to 10amps.

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

06-28-2016 04:34 PM
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Four Stroker

Elite Veteran

Atlanta

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I use the Deans four pin plugs with two pins per conductor. Seems more appropriate for a RX pack. I charge through the servo connector balance lead at 2.5 A which is 1C - no particular reason. I rewire the JR HD switches for two RX plugs out and 16~18 AWG in with Deans plug.

A123 last forever. If I dent a cell, I throw it away. Every 3~5 years I dent a battery pack.

06-28-2016 09:15 PM
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Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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I don't use them due to weight concerns and space in my models, but I don't think I've ever seen chemistry and construction as robust as A123. My gawd do they take abuse and keep coming back for more.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

06-28-2016 09:20 PM
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Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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A few guys are still using them for flight packs on fixed wing aircraft and have difficulty killing them.

  

06-28-2016 09:30 PM
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ICUR1-2

Key Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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I trust them in my cordless drills, they have very good performance and last allot longer than my old ni-cads and even charge faster.

What I hate is when I'm hanging a ceiling or putting in those last couple of screws it just stops time to swap batteries.

they just keep going full tilt until dead no warning

spending time, paying attention

06-28-2016 10:37 PM
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jharkin

Senior Heliman

Holliston, MA - USA

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My gawd do they take abuse and keep coming back for more.
Twice I forgot to turn off something and killed the packs dead to zero volts.

In both cases after letting them rest a few days the repair charge algorithm in the FMA was able to recover them to full capacity.

Show me ANY other battery that will do that.

Grated I have a hard time trusting them in an aircraft again.... but they survived.

The other thing I love is the amount of data thats been published on them. Has any lipo MFG every done the amount of testing and published all the charge and discharge graphs that you can get out of those NASA A123 research reports??? I doubt it..

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

06-29-2016 12:32 AM
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Four Stroker

Elite Veteran

Atlanta

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HK claims to have genuine A123 with solder tabs for $9 a cell.

They also make great starter packs, either 4 or 5 cell !

06-29-2016 01:18 AM
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Heli_Splatter

Key Veteran

Silver Spring, MD by way of Sidney, Ne - USA

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Anybody have experience with Lithium Manganese?

I have a buddy flying them on his 1/2 scale ultimate. He is running a powerbox to run all the servos. I don't really understand his reluctance to change to LiFe or LiPo as they are more common.

They have worked well for years but now he seems to have a dead cell in two of the three batteries. They are old 10+years. He is in process of replacing all, but why spend big money for special batteries?

06-29-2016 10:02 PM
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GREYEAGLE

Elite Veteran

Flat Land's

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Say he knows what he is doing : See if he will accept you as a Student your Tutor.

3-$4000.00 or MORE >> $$$ wrapped up in a 10 year old 1/2 Scale - Hundreds of Hours of work ??

That

Is exceptional for Battery life and the Life of a OLD airplane HE TRUST's. It's not made from styro foam most likely NOT a ARF .

No jacked up wiring modification or wiring Voodoo - watching Voltage as a monitor or determination of CURRENT. Kookie wall racks of Chargers

It's the Current Draw or AMP's upon delivery to the system when it is asked for. THE SUPPLY Volume. High Tourque digital servos EAT LOT's of Current to deliver the out put in Ounces. It's Not magic .
Why they are digital and why they can get Hot. Heat is a Enemy - It is resistance to current.

Voltage mean's NOTHING then you got to put a Current sucking regulator into the system " Wasting " Current in HEAT to reduce it to a operating level > Still More Loss of Amperage. Sales Crap to Sell :
Its results that count.

Have a close associate : Run a particular battery chemistry - it must be the same thing. It is absolutely gutless the abuse it takes.

Just crazy Out put and amperage retention over time - I Believe it cause I seen it : Do I yet run Em - Not yet just for budget purpose's.

Good Batteries are BETTER than a Insurance Policy > You can Trust Em

greyeagle

06-30-2016 04:51 AM
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