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2014 AMA Safety Code addresses spotlight flying

Tbird

Veteran

Indiana

Glow sticks do well

Watch at YouTube

11-14-2013 06:13 AM
rstacy

Elite Veteran

Rochester, NY

Ray,
How can you disagree with me when you don't know what I consider a safe operation? I don't disagree that what you are describing is unsafe. In fact, I fully agree.
Now you are confusing the heck out of me Bob. You made this statement
Yes, it is quite possible to outfly the spotlight. That is no different than outflying the pilots ability...which happens every day in broad daylight. Absolutely no different.
I disagree. I say that it is very different. Perhaps I missed your point.

11-14-2013 08:01 AM
HOMEPAGE  
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

You're not the only one who's confused. Either way, it's a moot point. The AMA has spoken and has updated the safety code accordingly in the best interest of both pilots and spectators.



11-14-2013 01:25 PM
fmrsdtr

Senior Heliman

Oakville, Indiana

The December issue of Model Aviation is at the distribution center now and should be to members' mailboxes by Thanksgiving. Please check out the "In the Air" section of the magazine on page 11 when you receive it. There are more in-depth explanations from Ilona Maine/Safety and Member Benefits Department, about the changes to the 2014 Safety Code that will go into effect January 1.

Any further questions can be directed to Ilona at AMA Headquarters: ilonam@modelaircraft.org.

~Jenni Orebaugh, AMA # 640475 IRCHA # 3538
Assistant Editor, Model Aviation

11-14-2013 02:28 PM
johnbs8

Key Veteran

roseville michigan

Spot light flying > led night flying

TT X50
TT E700
Warp 360
TeaM KicKnWinG

11-14-2013 03:43 PM
MikeSherman

Veteran

Franksville, WI

Do you guys understand that AMA has NOT put the axe on spotlight flying? They are still allowing it, so you don't have to get all upset that you can't do it anymore at a sanctioned field or event. ....unless the CD decides otherwise.

You just need to have the BARE minumum lighting to be able to distinguish the heli's orientation in the event the heli encounters complete darkness via outflying the spotters or spotlight failure.

This can be in the form of a few glowsticks.

Am I missing something?

-Mike

Team QuickUK Pilot
Team Heliproz

11-14-2013 04:08 PM
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

> This can be in the form of a few glowsticks.

IRCHA has previously stated glowsticks are insufficient. Here's the post http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/p6097761/

- John

RR rules!

11-14-2013 05:16 PM
MikeSherman

Veteran

Franksville, WI

AMA has previously said glowsticks are insufficient
I didn't see that in the the link posted at the start of this thread. Do you have any documentation on that?

I find it hard to believe that a glowstick on each skid and one on the tail would be insufficient to distinguish orientation? Not saying it would be easy....but enough to at least have a chance to make right while in the dark or at least have an idea where the heli is going in the event of a crash.

Thanks.

-Mike

Team QuickUK Pilot
Team Heliproz

11-14-2013 05:23 PM
MikeSherman

Veteran

Franksville, WI

Ah...John, I see from that last weblink:
Current AMA safety code:
"RC night flying requires a lighting system providing the pilot with a clear view of the modelís attitude and orientation at all times."
IRCHA has taken the position that the use of spotlights does not ensure the proper level of illumination for safe flight.
We feel the safest method of night flying is through the use of glow wire, and/or LED lighting systems-including self illuminated main blades.
Just having glow sticks, on the skids, do not meet our requirements.
I would agree, just having 2 glowsticks would not be sufficient.

I don't think IRCHA was trying to say "glowsticks" would not be allowed to satisfy "a clear view of the modelís attitude and orientation at all times."

An adequate number/color would be required to define orientation.

-Mike

Team QuickUK Pilot
Team Heliproz

11-14-2013 06:34 PM
Glenn Goodlett

Senior Heliman

California

Flying with a spotlight on the heli is irresponsible. Flying a heli with three spotlights on it, not so much. The AMA represents us. Not the other way around.

11-14-2013 08:07 PM
BobOD

Elite Veteran

New York- USA

I disagree. I say that it is very different. Perhaps I missed your point.
Then you would say that no pilot could spotlight fly with less risk than any other pilot flying in daylight or with nightlights, regardless of the equipment, conditions, maneuvers performed, consideration to any spectators if there are any. I happen to think it is possible. Been being practiced...no indeed.
Still, I think the statement should have stopped with "RC night flying requires a lighting system providing the pilot with a clear view of the modelís attitude and orientation at all times." and perhaps followed up with "and operated in a manner allowing control of the aircraft for the entire flight". Because if the pilot lost control, then the pilot and team failed...it's no different.

Team POP Secret

11-15-2013 12:27 AM
BobOD

Elite Veteran

New York- USA

Flying with a spotlight on the heli is irresponsible. Flying a heli with three spotlights on it, not so much.
Good suggestion.

Team POP Secret

11-15-2013 12:54 AM
Jeff polisena

Elite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

"Shhhhhhhh don't tell anyone" works everytime

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

11-15-2013 10:25 PM
LaDon

Heliman

Manson, Ia

I have not watched nor has my kid participated in spotlight flying. The closest I will get to it is watching on YouTube and that is it. Ryan has no interest in it and I am glad. I agree with Ray on the fact that the comparison on outflying your ability in daylight is not the same as outflying the spots. In daylight you can see it coming and can at least try doing something. It makes really no difference to me if the ama makes theses rules or not as I won't even stay around if it is being done. Getting hit is not high on my priority list and yeah you can say it hasn't happened yet and it hasn't. Yet being the key word here

11-15-2013 11:36 PM
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

I agree, flying in the day is dangerous enough. Now add the cover of darkness and the very real possibility to not see the Heli at all just makes the problem worse.

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

11-16-2013 12:34 AM
BobOD

Elite Veteran

New York- USA

the fact that the comparison on outflying your ability in daylight is not the same as outflying the spots.
Who ever said it was? I didn't say that but this explains all the confusion.

What I am saying is that one can certainly fly within their means, and the spotlight operators as well. If they do not fly within their capabilities, then that is the same as anyone flying outside their capabilities.
As for the spectators, who said there are any? It's not under the "events" section. Anyway, my thought on that is if you've made it that far, then you failed already. This happens too often now and there are things that can be done about that as well.

How about this? Which do you feel is more risky? Spotlight flying with skilled pilot and light operator flying constrained maneuvers at a good distance with a safety net.
Versus someone doing a hurricane 12" in front of their face and hundreds of spectators milling about looking in all directions?
Honest answer please.
The latter is not specifically disallowed by the safety code noted above. But, people who are practicing the night flying described above that, can no longer.

Team POP Secret

11-16-2013 04:04 AM
LaDon

Heliman

Manson, Ia

Well I have never seen a hurricane 12 inches in front of ones face but I am not saying someone didn't do that. What I will say about that or the spotlight flying is this. If one does the hurricane and he flies that close and hits himself that is his fault. If a person is spotlight flying and loses it and hits himself there again his fault. Now put a crowd watching and the hurricane hits himself if the crowd is at a safe distance the heli prolly won't make it to the crowd and if it does it will be in pieces. Lose it spotlight flying it can make the crowd under power. It all boils down to this if you want to do it in your yard or somewhere like this by all means go do it. It just ain't gonna be allowed at ircha and events like that and it shouldn't be but that is my opinion like it or not. Now if someone wants to build a place to do it at and wants to have events for it that is fine by me by all means go for it. As for us ppl that don't do it won't be there. If ppl don't like ppl doing the hurricanes at ircha and those events then don't go to them it is all that simple. I guess the thing that I see with all of this is that nobody is comparing apples to apples here. We bring up the hurricanes at the big events and make it sound like the crowd is in danger but on the spotlight flying it is made to sound like it is being done with just a couple of friends and no crowd. My only point here is without the crowds watching do what you want it is your prerogative I was wt and event this year that the night fling pilots didn't go out far enough from the crowd and also flew over the crowd and rev,s a lot. Nobody said anything about it and I am not sure I will go back to it. There again my choice to make. If I choose to go back knowing this and get hit and hurt I don't want nobody feeling sorry for me as it was my choice to go back.

11-16-2013 02:36 PM
LaDon

Heliman

Manson, Ia

You are right bob a person can fly within their means. That is exactly right. Problem is tho almost everyone thinks that they are capable of whatever is done even over their means. Only a certain amount of ppl know the limits and they are the ones that make it to where the rules are written. I may have understood some of your other stuff wrong sorry

11-16-2013 03:39 PM
BobOD

Elite Veteran

New York- USA

Nothing to be sorry about, just a discussion. All opinions welcome. I don't disagree with most of what you're saying.
Now if someone wants to build a place to do it at and wants to have events for it that is fine by me by all means go for it
The problem is, the way they worded it, it makes it very difficult for someone to do this.

And BTW, I think the "you have a chance to see it coming" thing is over-rated. Most times I seen someone in the crowd hit it doesn't seem "seeing it coming" helped them much. But, that's opening a huge can of worms.

Team POP Secret

11-16-2013 05:35 PM
LaDon

Heliman

Manson, Ia

Well the thing about seeing it coming at least give you a chance to do something. Not saying it will work. The thing about the whole situation that is that it is not a matter of if it is a matter of when and when it does it will affect all of us and not in a way that will be good for the sport.

11-16-2013 08:50 PM
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