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JR AMERICAS . HeliDirect . Heli-Max
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Flybarless Rotor Head Systems

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Align 3G
Align 3GX version 4.0 Software -- FIXED by VERSION 5.0
coolice

Key Veteran

Northamptonshire, England

Hey.

Sorry been without internet since last Saturday.

I've now done some more 3GX V4 testing on my Trex 450L.
My setup is firmware version V4, tail servo arm 7mm out from centre, small heli delay set to 30, 50% rudder lock gain, will update on gyro gain value another time, tail blades centred in rate mode, tail feel perfect.
No hesitation on left yaw, no bounce on right piro, works great.
Holds in aggressive 3D without issue.

Only problem noted, intermittent twitch of servos on bench. Also pulses throttle/ESC which flicks main blades which is worrying. Relayed to RobbeUK.
.

Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
Midland Helicopters

09-28-2013 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

Unfortunately, there are a couple of threads about this issue. I'll try to keep my posts going here, instead of the Align forum going forward.

As I noted in that other thread, I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment.

Of 8 installations of V4.0, none have worked satisfactorily for me. Helis tested were 700N, 600N, NX4, 550, 500, 450 and a couple of 250s. All exhibited odd behavior. I spent quite a bit of time last weekend with my PC at the field, trying to give V4.0 a real chance to work right. Settings I tried included what you posted above. Lowering the lock gain just made the feel worse than it already was. Large/Small mode made no real difference. Various gains at the transmitter failed to produce "good" results.

I'm not new to helis, setup, or gyros. Installing V4.0 pretty much made my FBL fleet suck with regard to tail handling. Reverting back to 3.1, those problems all disappeared.

Maybe the secret sauce doesn't reach all the way here to Iowa. I was quite pleased with the collective and cyclic handling I got a glimpse of with V4.0, I can only hope that V4.x is released quickly, and that it resolves the tail problems.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

09-28-2013 Over year old.
knightofcarnage

Elite Veteran

chicago

Hey.

Sorry been without internet since last Saturday.

I've now done some more 3GX V4 testing on my Trex 450L.
My setup is firmware version V4, tail servo arm 7mm out from centre, small heli delay set to 30, 50% rudder lock gain, will update on gyro gain value another time, tail blades centred in rate mode, tail feel perfect.
No hesitation on left yaw, no bounce on right piro, works great.
Holds in aggressive 3D without issue.
.
I have very similar setting and results.
Of 8 installations of V4.0, none have worked satisfactorily for me. Helis tested were 700N, 600N, NX4, 550, 500, 450 and a couple of 250s. All exhibited odd behavior.
Can you give more detail on your problems. What maneuvers are you doing in your testing. Also are they stock servos etc.
Only problem noted, intermittent twitch of servos on bench. Also pulses throttle/ESC which flicks main blades which is worrying. Relayed to RobbeUK.
I notice the twitching of the servos in setup mode too. Flicking the main blades that is normal. That is the count down from esc. usally it only move 1 step on the motor when it beeps. I have see this on other ESC like CC 160 HV EDGE and ICE Light 50 (both edge and none edge)

Colic what was the gain you ended up on AIL and ELV?

Team GrandRC

09-28-2013 Over year old.
coolice

Key Veteran

Northamptonshire, England

Hi Dave.

Unfortunately the issue you're seeing appears to just be you're own opinion and every thread so far has the same paragraph in it of you advising to downgrade.
So far only 1-3 fliers are reporting this tail feel so you're in a small minority with this issue, it's not widely reported on other forums and appears to just be limited to this forum following your writings.

It appears Dino has not managed to see the problem either.

Let others try V4 for themselves and see the results, taking advice from you, myself and others and most probably have a great flying model.

Knightofcarnage.
I know what you mean on esc twitch on startup, but mine were seen after a flight while making settings changes.
If left in flight mode ready to go for any length of time the servos on my 450L twitch, the throttle channel also pulses tweaking the blades round.
I've got a theory the ESC's BEC may be involved, but I've not got hold of a seperate battey to rule this out just yet.

Could you leave one of you models on for a while and tell me if you see any uncommanded servo movements please?

Aileron and elevator gain I'll come back with as I need to go up with them I feel from their current 55/60% position.
.
.

Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
Midland Helicopters

09-28-2013 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

Cool--

I forwarded a couple of PM threads to you, that were between myself and Dino.
It appears Dino has not managed to see the problem either.
I don't know where you got that bit of info, in the PM's I forwarded to you, he clearly states that he has seen the problem.

Based on my conversations with Dino, what I have been seeing is not a one-of occurrence, the PMs indicate he has experienced the problem, and Jamie has, as well.

As I stated, I don't want to get into a public back and forth over this problem. As far as I can tell from my PMs with Dino, the problem has been seen, acknowledged, and Align is working on a fix. I don't believe Dino is simply telling me what I want to hear...

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

09-28-2013 Over year old.
coolice

Key Veteran

Northamptonshire, England

Hi Dave.

It's going to get confusing if we're not careful, but Dino is talking of a kick and your posts are talking of a lack of tail feel/hold/accuracy. So is there a crossing of wires in the explanation of the problem or is there your problem and another?

Today I have seen the motor pulse in the hover, showing a momentary lose in rotor rpm, but the tail is behaving.
I've got a stronger BEC coming to fit to my 450L, but no brownouts are indicated as sats are solid.

I'll PM Dino myself to confirm if it's what you're seeing or something else he's referring to.
.

Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
Midland Helicopters

09-28-2013 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

To be clear:

My first indication of something not being right happened at the top of a stall turn, with a 540 piro at the top, in my 500. I let go of the stick, however the tail continued on for at least an additional 90 degrees, then recovered the position it should have. Clearly an uncommanded overshoot of final position. Thinking I had dumb thumbed the 540, I tried it again. Same results. Tail stopping ability is poor, lots of overshoot, bounce if you will, several cycles before coming to a stop.

In a 450Pro V2 with a DFC head, simply hovering, then feeding in left rudder, the nose continued to point forward, until I had nearly a half stick of left, at which point, the nose suddenly changed heading to the new position. The same heli, when hovering and given right rudder, would follow the stick as it should, however, when right turn was released, the nose did not maintain the new heading, it immediately returned to the previous position. With this behavior, the heli was not something I'd want to actually attempt to fly.

I backed 4.0 out of the 450, reverted to 3.1 for a short while. Behavior of the tail was as expected. I reinstalled V4.0 as a double check, the same poor performance was seen.

Trex 550, tail stopping ability poor. Hover, give full rudder (either direction) let go of the rudder stick. The tail bounces two to three cycles before coming to rest. A damped oscillation at best, but way underdamped.

With version 3.1, under the same conditions, when the rudder stick is let go, the tail immediately comes to a stop and you can audibly hear the tail rotor working to make that a reality. With 4.0, there is no clear, crisp, stop. You can't really hear the tail rotor doing its job, nor is it visible in the reaction of the tail. With 3.1, it's there. This was clearly obvious to other flyers at the field last week, including a friend of mine who doesn't fly helis, but is well into pattern flying and is tuned into the performance of flight controls.

Similar behavior in the other helis I listed. Stopping ability of the tail rotor just plain sucks in V4.0.

Last weekend, I fiddled with V4.0, trying large and small heli modes, increasing lock gain, decreasing lock gain. I increased and decreased gyro gain, to no avail. Nothing actually made the tail work better. It did have the overall effect of just making the tail feel bad.

I also notice what appears to be "hunting" in fast forward flight with V4.0. Not a locked-in feel when flying.

I have a couple of old Trex 450SA helis, flybar and all, with GY401 gyros whose behavior outshines V4.0.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

09-29-2013 Over year old.
coolice

Key Veteran

Northamptonshire, England

Hi Dave.

Thanks for clarifying your findings, which are centred on tail performance.
I'm not experiencing any tail gyro problems, tail holds, let go of the stick after a stall turn, piro etc and it stops nice. This was the same on the 700E DFC a week before V4 went public.
Dino's message you forwarded me talks of a kick, no overshoot or wag in FFF connected to the tail. So is his issue different, as from what I'm reading it is.

Anyway, I'll make contact myself.
.

Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
Midland Helicopters

09-29-2013 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
NQNA

Elite Veteran

USA

V-Bar

09-29-2013 Over year old.
knightofcarnage

Elite Veteran

chicago

Vbar
Over rated

Did you try to reset the unit and reconfigure it from scratch or just updated the firmware and tested

Team GrandRC

09-29-2013 Over year old.
NQNA

Elite Veteran

USA

I have had 5 Align units.. 3 have failed.. VBar!!!

09-29-2013 Over year old.
NQNA

Elite Veteran

USA

Watch my videos..

09-29-2013 Over year old.
NQNA

Elite Veteran

USA

Trex 500 Align unit: crashed
Trex 450 Pro Align unit: crashed
Mikado 600 Align unit: crashed..

Done! All now on V-Bar... No crashes.. END OF STORY!

09-29-2013 Over year old.
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

Did you try to reset the unit and reconfigure it from scratch or just updated the firmware and tested
Don't know if that was aimed at NQNA or me. In my case, loading new SW resets the unit, and you have to go through the DIR, Rudder, and Throttle/Pitch calibration as if you were setting up a new unit.

As for NQNA's problems, all I can say is I currently have 8 systems set up and flying on a regular basis, in electric and nitro helis ranging in size from 250 up to 700. Performance has been failure free in all systems. I only have a problem at present with the V4.0 gyro performance.

I have another four systems, in the box, waiting for me to figure out where to install them. My experience with the 3GX is that it just works, it's reliable. The single most important thing you can do for the 3GX is to supply it with clean, ample power.

-----

Coolice -- on one occasion, while flying my 550 with V4.0 installed, I did see one instance of a sudden in-flight tail kick (nose left) in level, fast-forward flight.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

09-29-2013 Over year old.
NQNA

Elite Veteran

USA

My Align issues are not just mine..best bet burn em in a fire pit... I have video.. If you want.. If you want to buy an Align 3GX unit......good luck to you... But I AM Done! F@@K me 3times.. Done.. Buy away!

09-29-2013 Over year old.
NQNA

Elite Veteran

USA

V-Bar

09-29-2013 Over year old.
coolice

Key Veteran

Northamptonshire, England

Hey.

The Vbar is good, no doubt about it. However, at double the price and having been in the FBL game longer it should be. I fly Vbars in my larger machines and they do fly well.
All other FBL units are trying to match the Vbar as best as they can, some claim to straight away but don't, others and this includes the 3GX is doing its best to evolve over time into a better unit.
V4 has made a big leap to better performance, it's not perfect yet, but is doing well. I've not had a terribly bad expexperience in all my 3GX flying, it does work but requires time and knowledge to get flying great. Many fliers today do not understand how to tune a flybarred setup and so do then not understand what each parameter the Align PC offers them in terms of flight tuning. This is where the Beastx's led setup won followers over other units.

Vbar is good, but as with any unit has good and bad points in its flight performance depending on what he or she prefers in a model.
.

Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
Midland Helicopters

09-29-2013 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

++++1 !!!!^^^^^

Very well said....
I hope this thread can continue with information as the OP intended..

NQNA, sorry to hear you had problems.. and glad to hear that you resolved them with vbar units.. BUT your posts have nothing to say except listen to me, only vbars work..

Some of us read these posts to learn so that we can possibly help others out that might have a similar problem...

Thanks, Stan

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades, East Coast Scale Helicopter,Castle Creations, Haiyin Battery

09-29-2013 Over year old.
marked23

Key Veteran

Lynnwood, WA

09-29-2013 Over year old.
AnthonyGTR

Heliman

charleston sc

I'm sorry I have not updated my issues with the 3gx v4.0. I ended up finding the problem with it and solving it.

It seems that it was 100% user error on my behalf. I had the 3gx v4.0 mounted incorrectly. I really feel like a complete idiot now but at least I am going to own up to my own mistakes.

Original mounting location where I had the problems with V4.0.


New mounting location. 0 problems and heli flies perfectly now!!!

10-07-2013 Over year old.
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Scorpion Power System . Ron's RC Helicopters . Thunder Power RC
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Flybarless Rotor Head Systems

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Align 3G
Align 3GX version 4.0 Software -- FIXED by VERSION 5.0
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