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Gasser Model RC Helicopters

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Whiplash Gasser

Bohnhead

Senior Heliman

Watertown,SD. USA

I have been flying gassers on and off for about 5 years. I am expecting my Whiplash sometime this week. Wondering how many flights it will need before the bobble will go away with the lower head speeds? Also wondering what is the best muffler to use with the Toxic 270. Not really wanting to use the bigger tuned pipe setup. Thanks guys.

Quick Charge,Fuel, and let's go Flying!!!

04-07-2013 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
Carey Shurley

Elite Veteran

Orlando, FL - USA

most commonly used mufflers, probably in order of popularity

century torpedo v2 - about 8.2oz
rjx - about 14 oz - questionable quality control but higher performance
hatori SB12 - about 8.8 oz - high performance and high quality

bobble? lubricate the dampers/axle thoroughly. which FBL are you using?

If you're not flying a gasoline helicopter
You're paying 10 times too much for fuel!!

04-07-2013 Over year old.
Bohnhead

Senior Heliman

Watertown,SD. USA

FBL

It has the Mikado Siverline with pro edition

Quick Charge,Fuel, and let's go Flying!!!

04-07-2013 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
Carey Shurley

Elite Veteran

Orlando, FL - USA

with the TRM motors, the RJX or Hatori will make the most measured power (measured on an inertia dyno) No guarantees about how long the RJX will survive, you can do some research on that here. Other mfgrs motors will be tuned differently so the results may be different.

lubricate the axle and dampers with grease, run the blades tight and check the blade CG's

If you're not flying a gasoline helicopter
You're paying 10 times too much for fuel!!

04-07-2013 Over year old.
Bohnhead

Senior Heliman

Watertown,SD. USA

Whippy

I purchased the heli used with 8 flights on it. The previous owner said it had a little bobble once in awhile. Not sure if it is his setup or the dampners. I read on here that the Whippy will do that when new if the head speed is below 1600. Not sure what he was running for a head speed? The heli has the V2 exaust right now. I will probbably see if I like it. I do have a new RJX I could use but ultimately want to put the Hatori on it eventually. Not sure where to get the Hatori. Looks like they are sold out most everywhere. Thanks for the input Carey.

Quick Charge,Fuel, and let's go Flying!!!

04-07-2013 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
Carey Shurley

Elite Veteran

Orlando, FL - USA

email hatoriusa@aol.com. Rich can get them

If you're not flying a gasoline helicopter
You're paying 10 times too much for fuel!!

04-07-2013 Over year old.
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

Mufflers

You'll do fine with the century v2, I got two of them on my gassers, one on the whiplash and the other on the Spectra. I'm running the Hanson 3D max 270 in mine and run them from 1650 to 1900 head speed though I have run the whiplash as high as 1950 I really don't see the need for it with my flying. I'm quite satisfied actually flying idle up 1 in the range of 1750 to 1800 and slowing things down and trying to be smooth and precise about it. Is hard to be precise and perfect, when you try that you'll find out its quite a challenge which is what keeps me practicing to be better at it.

I think some people say about 50 flights for the head dampeners to wear in. I know mine used to do it before but now I can run it even at 1600 head speed and it doesn't do the bobble.

-=>Raja.

1005-G G26 3D Max, 3722 flts
Spectra-G G270 3D Max, 2649 flts
Whiplash-G G300 3D Max, 823 flts

04-07-2013 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
Bohnhead

Senior Heliman

Watertown,SD. USA

Whippy

Hey Raja,

Thanks for the input. Buy the way. Love your post flying at the field with all 3 of your gassers. Great job of flying. Your machines sound great and you are a very smooth pilot. I now have a Whippy. and 3 1005 gassers. I love the fuel efficiency and how smooth they fly. Guess I am hooked. Wish I could get rid of my NIB 1005 gasser and get a Spectra to complete my collection. So many of the gasser pilots continue to make it easier and more enjoyable to get into the gasser frenzy. Thanks for all the gasser support.
This sight is amazing with all your help. Thank you RunRyder and to all that contribute!

Quick Charge,Fuel, and let's go Flying!!!

04-07-2013 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

You're very welcome Tim!

Glad to be of help as always

Hey which post are you referring to, on this site or the other in the gasser section as well with the 1000 flights this year challenge?

Congrats on the whippy, keep one of the 1005s and get yourself a Spectra would be a good trio. If you do get the Spectra I would recommend the RC motor conversion for it with the helibug kit, the RC motors are smoother/easier on the airframes and will make the Spectra just as good as the whippy if not better in some scenarios and the whippy better in others. A good all around marriage for the best of both worlds.

Gas is king, it may take a while for it to catch on, but I'm sure eventually it will. Just wait until one of the pro pilots starts routinely flying his gasser (not someone else's) as some show, competition or event, and then the flood gates for the nay sayers will open up

Its windy as heck today but going to head out to the field to get a couple of flights in and add to my 1000 flight count. I'm at 282 now need to be at 336 by the end of April to stay on track. How else, without gassers, can we do this without breaking the bank??

-=>Raja.

1005-G G26 3D Max, 3722 flts
Spectra-G G270 3D Max, 2649 flts
Whiplash-G G300 3D Max, 823 flts

04-07-2013 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
Bohnhead

Senior Heliman

Watertown,SD. USA

Flying Field

This post.

http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t726346p1/

Excellent flying

Quick Charge,Fuel, and let's go Flying!!!

04-07-2013 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

I have the RJX muffler. Some say it makes the most power, and it's the heaviest,, and is of questionable quality. Don't know about the performance or weight compared to others but it does have a tendency split open for many including me at the same place. I had it welded so it is much stronger in that area than when bought. Even with the repair it is still the cheapest but be prepared for this to happen eventually if you use one. I am running a Hanson 29cc PUH and have often wondered if used on a RC format engine which tends to be smoother if this would still happen.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

04-07-2013 Over year old.
fastflyer20

Key Veteran

N. Tonawanda, NY

You will love the Whip!

Use the clear/white dampers for break in, the blue are harder for higher head speeds (2000 and above).

Once broken in, 1950 is a great head speed with the 6.89 ratio putting the engine at the Zenoah 13,500 sweet spot.

I am just starting to run 17 tooth pinions on both of my Whips (7.29 ratio) to keep the head speed down with the Quickdraw tuned pipes but I was amazed at what a nice combo the Toxic 270TT and muffler was at 1850 and 1950 head speeds. Even without the tuned pipe, it put the engine into the power band and pulled much stronger than I expected.

I modified another RJX, big time variation on internals from one muffler to another. Mine never made power, the V2 was always much better, Toxic had the RJX making good power on the dyno and I never understood it until now. IMHO stick with the V2 until you get the Hatori. I do like the RJX once modified though.

Tom
CAUTION - my posts are based on my experiences, yours may be different.

04-07-2013 Over year old.
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

How did you modify the RJX?

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

04-07-2013 Over year old.
Bohnhead

Senior Heliman

Watertown,SD. USA

RJX Muffler Mods

fastflyer20,

Please do tell what you did for the RJX mod. Pics would be great. I have a new RJX and would like to know more about your mod.

Thanks

Quick Charge,Fuel, and let's go Flying!!!

04-08-2013 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

I don't understand this

Carey through Al says the RJX makes more power than the v2 on the dyno. I got the stock RJX muffler (turboomni's actually when it was new) and put it on my heli to do some flight tests, 3D and power climbouts. It made less rpms on the top end and bogged easier than the V2 plus it was twice the weight.

Where is it making more power, at very high rpms outside my flying range? Or is it making more power after you modify it? You can also modify the V2 to make more power by drilling out the screw holder in the tail piece, but you better be prepared to fly with earplugs to save your hearing as the noise hurts and if it hurts it means ear damage over time.

Bohnhead, I LOVE that drive into the field 4x4 style, every time I watch that I get a kick out of that video Today some swasm of black insects was trying to hover in front of my face as I flew, I much preferred the snow pack and lack of bugs, seriously!

-=>Raja.

1005-G G26 3D Max, 3722 flts
Spectra-G G270 3D Max, 2649 flts
Whiplash-G G300 3D Max, 823 flts

04-08-2013 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
Carey Shurley

Elite Veteran

Orlando, FL - USA

note, I did say "with the TRM motors". I watched the dyno testing in person between the V2, the RJX and the Hatori on a TRM VX231. All done within minutes of each other, same fuel, same motor, same parameters, tuning adjusted as needed.
  1. In relative terms, with that motor the unmodified V2 made less HP everywhere
  2. the RJX made more midrange HP than either of the other two
  3. the Hatori made more hi end HP than either of the other two
I don't have the graphs unfortunately to post.

I don't have any data with a BH Hanson motor of any displacement. I'm rather sure the results would be at least somewhat different because I doubt that the two motors run the same timing

both the RJX and Hatori are much higher volume pipes, I'd expect with larger displacements the results will remain similar. Century is making a new commercial/UAV muffler thats huge. Haven't had an opportunity to run one of those

I do know that I run both head and engine speeds much higher than you prefer Raja. I also know that if you DON'T run the TRM motors in the RPM range that they are designed to run, they don't run as well as they will as designed.

If you're not flying a gasoline helicopter
You're paying 10 times too much for fuel!!

04-08-2013 Over year old.
Bohnhead

Senior Heliman

Watertown,SD. USA

Mufflers

I am sure that the power output with different pipes going from one engine builder to another is going to yield very different results. Each engine builder and engine model will have different max HP output as well as a specific torque rpm band they work best at. What works good on one does not mean it will work well on another. All I can do is try the recomended pipes and see what works best for me. Both engine builders mentioned here do a great job. I have one of each and like them both.

Quick Charge,Fuel, and let's go Flying!!!

04-08-2013 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
fastflyer20

Key Veteran

N. Tonawanda, NY

The RJX tips vary, but the two ID's I measured from .472" to .495", quite a range! The tip bends into a 90 degree pipe.

Cut the tip off leaving as much weld as possible.
Drill out to 11/16
Snake out the pipe

You can now see a baffle plate with another single small diameter hole

Drill 4 holes around the center hole
I have tried 3/16" and 1/4"

Machine a new tip
I have tried 9/16 and 5/8 ID (same as V2)

Weld the new tip on

The 1/4" and 5/8" combo has been run on a bunch of different helis and I really like it, it is my go to muffler when not running the Quickdraw.

I just finished the 3/16" and 9/16" combo and have it on a new 290 top end I ported, so no real data yet, HS is still very low.

Tom
CAUTION - my posts are based on my experiences, yours may be different.

04-08-2013 Over year old.
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

When my RJX split open it didn't split open to see that thingy in that pic as it was split too far forward. But when split I did see that big backplate. I actually thought about ,,,wouldn't be nice to drill a few holes in that sucker! Carey did say he couldn't speak of Hanson compared to Toxic,,,fair enough but the displacement of the Toxic 231 is very small. The 231 could run on a big muffler faster than a bigger displacement motor and may affect the numbers. I know the difference of a 231 compared to a 29cc seems small but many are aware that between the two the 29cc consumes a good bit more fuel compared to a 231 because as it is ingesting a good bit more air and then needs more fuel. But I would argue the 29cc makes more torque and HP than the 231 in all rpms than present mufflers can support. I would like to see mufflers not tuned pipes specifically tuned to displacement of the engine displacement and suited to their peak rpms the engines are comfortable with,,otherwise it's a crap shoot.

PS Why is Century now promoting PUH style engines they or whomever has modified when everything I have read says RC type are better even stock>>???? Are they too late or am I missing something here? Anyone try one?

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

04-08-2013 Over year old.
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

Well

The RJX is the Chinese copy of the Hatori, basically looks identical just made out of what they call "pot metal" as my friend calls it, cheap junk that doesn't hold up but you can get five for the price of one Hatori.

Second the original Hatori (not sure about the latest one) has quite a small tailpipe which is marginal for a 26cc motor probably better for a 23cc. I know it worked well for a while for me but as soon as the carbon built up a bit inside it, then the muffler lost some power. May not do so well over the long haul (many flights) especially with bigger displacement motors. With a 23 cc It could plug up some and will still have enough flow for the smaller engine.

Toxic does certainly run much higher porting numbers than Hanson does which also like Carey says means you need to run it fast otherwise its not going to work right. In his case I believe he recommends north of 13,500 to say about 14,800 or so. On the other hand I run my Hanson motors in the lower rpm ranges and they make really good power there, south of 13,500 say between 12 to 13k. The bottom line is that if you like to run slower then toxic is not a good choice. Running toxic fast and hard is OK, but I don't like to do it myself on a consistent basis due to more wear and tear/maintenance work needed on the machine. Right now I have 55 hours on my machine and I did some routine maintenance today trying to solve a ni ni ni ni sound when unloaded sometimes (not consistent) replacing the tail ball link ends and re-greasing the thrust bearings in the tail which looked like new to be honest I was happy to see that. See what happens next time out.

-=>Raja.

1005-G G26 3D Max, 3722 flts
Spectra-G G270 3D Max, 2649 flts
Whiplash-G G300 3D Max, 823 flts

04-08-2013 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
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